Military / Naval Academy

[Spartan159]

Should Military / Naval Academies count as a 1st term of whichever military branch a character serves in, IE count toward retirement and time served mods and such?

Or are they civilians until they graduate?

 

[BlackBat242]

In CT book 5 nothing is said either way about whether academy/college time could be counted towards retirement terms or not.

It also makes no mention of any required length of service after graduation from the Academy, just that the PC is automatically in the Navy as an Ensign.

As CT is the only version I deal with, I had to make my own rulings, and I used the example most familiar to me (US military regulations).


The following is for US Service Academies only:

The commitment is normally five years of active duty and three years of reserves, although it has varied. The obligation attaches on the first day of a cadet's second class (junior) year, and non-graduates after that point are expected to fulfill their obligations in enlisted service.

So you are technically free to depart with no obligation during the first year, but become a legally-obligated member of the military the first day of your second year. Even if you drop out, fail, or are expelled from the Academy on the second day of your second year you still must serve the obligated time... although you will be doing it as an enlisted person, not as an officer.

Note that NONE of the time spent in the Academy counts towards the obligation... nor does it count towards retirement!

http://militarypay.defense.gov/retirement/ad/19_faqs.html#Q2


So IF you base your rules on US military regulations, then Academy time doesn't count. Instead, I'd count "college" time as being virtually a separate "service", and use whatever mustering out tables that your version of Traveller uses for that career (in my case, the rules in JTAS #22 for the Imperial Academy of Science and Medicine).

Note also that the PC MUST spend 2 4-year terms in the service after graduating from the Academy.

 

[Reban]

Should Military / Naval Academies count as a 1st term of whichever military branch a character serves in, IE count toward retirement and time served mods and such?

Or are they civilians until they graduate?

No, academy time is not part of your military career. Technically you are in highschool/college getting an education which is tailored to the needs of a military career. After you graduate you are commissioned as an officer, thats really when your career starts.

As for being a civilian until they graduate I think, looking at examples around the world and through history its fair to say they are neither completely civilian nor military. If you see the academy as covering the ages 14-18 then you are too young to be a member of the military, but you are classed as a private soldier and given some of the privileges of an officer.

I really recommend you get a look at "Military Academy: A Traveller Variant". It appeared in Challenge No. 26 in the JTAS insert. It uses CT rules but details the academic life of the cadets in the Imperium. There's lots of great background on what Cadets have to do and get up to in their time off. Hogwarths for the OTU

 

[SpaceBadger]

I know the books say that Academy time is equivalent to college, but IMTU it starts at age 14, so the character enters service at age 18 as usual and is not penalized a potential term. I justify this by considering a significant amount of "Academy" time to be served as young Midshipmen as seen in The Mote in God's Eye and other books.

Edit: If a character flunks out after first year, he/she waits until age 18 to attempt to enlist or be drafted, so the normal age sequence isn't messed up.

 

[McPerth]

ITTR that some versions (sorry, I'm not sure about which ones and I don't find it right now) specify that Naval Accademy term does not count for mustering out. In that same sense, I find it logical to asume it does neither count for retirment pay, but AFAIK it's not specified anywhere.

Perhaps someone with better memory can give us exact references about it (assuming my memory has not betrayed me now) and if it only applies to Naval Accademy or to any precareer school.

 

[Dagrill]

I know the books say that Academy time is equivalent to college, but IMTU it starts at age 14, so the character enters service at age 18 as usual and is not penalized a potential term. I justify this by considering a significant amount of "Academy" time to be served as young Midshipmen as seen in The Mote in God's Eye and other books.

Edit: If a character flunks out after first year, he/she waits until age 18 to attempt to enlist or be drafted, so the normal age sequence isn't messed up.

Hi,

most people I know attended college/uni betwen the ages of 18 and 21, a 3 year term and ended with a Bachelors degree. It would not count as military service term, but I think you could get an extra cash role on the Benefits table to represent any stdent savings, probably need a -2 modifier at least though!

I agree there should be a 'school' route for training of middies as well

Kind Regards

David

 

[Vladika]

Hi,

...get an extra cash role on the Benefits table to represent any stdent savings, probably need a -2 modifier at least though!

I agree there should be a 'school' route for training of middies as well

Kind Regards

David

Just curious, but what collage student ever saved anything?

Maybe they should role one die, multiply by 10KCr, and finish with a debt (Collage Loans)?

 

[samuelvss]

So you are technically free to depart with no obligation during the first year, but become a legally-obligated member of the military the first day of your second year.

Read your own reference closer: 'second class year' is your junior year.

My own case (USMA, F-1, '88): at noon, on the first day of classes of our third ("second class" or "cow") year, we were welcomed to the profession of arms. Been there since, but that obligation date confuses things somewhat: I was in possession of an active duty ID card, subject to UCMJ, and paid from the public coffers from the first day I took the oath, July 1st, 1984. That said, while not a civilian, whether obligated or not, my military service calculated for pay and retirement purposes, did not start until he day of my graduation, 25 May 1988. Also, "leave" was not earned and given as on normal active duty, but was just whenever we did not have any other obligation (which were normally about 45-46 weeks a year).

So my closest reading is that cadets are of the military but not in the military, and military service does not start until the first term after graduation.

 

[samuelvss]

Maybe they should role one die, multiply by 10KCr, and finish with a debt (Collage Loans)?

Depends on how expensive a collage. Usually we just used magazine clippings to make a collage, which are usually free....even in college.

 

[Vladika]

Depends on how expensive a collage. Usually we just used magazine clippings to make a collage, which are usually free....even in college.

Hmmm embarrassing... And caught by a fellow Army Engineer?

 

[BlackBat242]

Read your own reference closer: 'second class year' is your junior year.

Ah... you are right... it was late, and my eyes compressed the sentence, eliminating the "class (junior) part.

You are right, the first TWO years of the Academy are obligation-free.

Thanks for the "Gibbs-slap".

 

[Garyius2003]

US Military Academy time (and US military medical school time) does not count towards the 20 year minimum to retire, but then is used to calculate the retirement amount. So you can put oddities into your military education.

Another odd fact, military officers who enter medical school on active duty are demoted to O-1, but still get paid at their old rate of pay. They are re-promoted to O-3 when they get their degree.

 

[Garyius2003]

My mistake, the academy time is not used for military calculation after minimum anymore, but med school still is. However, academy time counts for FERS federal employee retirements.

 

[samuelvss]

US Military Academy time (and US military medical school time) does not count towards the 20 year minimum to retire, but then is used to calculate the retirement amount. So you can put oddities into your military education.

USMA does not count for years towards retirement or for years for pay. OOPS; I didn't see your later post.

As to the med school, I do not have a lot of information, but I know there are a number of routes. My USMA roommate, for instance, went directly, upon commissioning, to the Uniformed Services med school. The doctor who fixed up my knee when I was a 2LT joined sometime after he began Columbia med school. Then one can, I imagine, go to med school on the Army's dime as either an already-serving commissioned officer or an enlisted member (and don't tell me everyone with a college degree is commissioned: I knew a Master Sergeant with a Ph.D. in computer science).

The point I would take away is that the reality that Traveller attempts to simplify is always going to be far more complex than could be included. Some truths are just going to be generalized away. The basic rule is that going to a military academy is before your service starts to "count," and in the OTU, the military doctors all come from the previously-commissioned officers. If we try to use the exceptions to modify the rule, we lose our focus on a playable game by trying to guess the unknowable by extrapolating from a reality that is too complex for us to fully understand. (e.g.: I graduated from USMA, but could not tell you how the service of my classmates who were prior service is calculated.)

 

[samuelvss]

Hmmm embarrassing... And caught by a fellow Army Engineer?

I refer to myself as a "faux engineer." I wasn't high enough in my class to be a "West Point Engineer," the crème-de-la-crème, but branch transferred after 11 years as an infantryman, during which I did the only real engineering work for which the Army (later) trained me. Since then, I have done real property management, and been the engineer for a staff that had no engineering functions. Then I wandering into the murky wastes of "branch immaterial" jobs, in which I sojourn still.

The Army thinks I am an Engineer because I took a correspondence course and went to a two-week school. Despite graduating from a top-tier law school, passing the bar, and practicing for 10 years, they don't consider me a lawyer. I have no desire to either 1. argue with the Army, or 2. ever be a JAG, so I'm good with that. I am, therefore an "Army Engineer," and even "West Point Engineer," by the slimmest of technicalities.

BTW: there's a special part of Hades reserved for those who use a man's typos against him, and I'm headed for there. More to do with my second an third professions than my first, though.