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Military Vehicles

A

Apparition

SOC-12
So I got my hands on this book finally, and I decided to give it a go. I decided to model my most favorite aircraft ever, to about as accurate as I could get within the rules. It is about 400 kph faster then it should be, likely too light, and there is not a good representation of the GAU-8 Avenger gattling gun (heavy autocannon is only semi-armor piercing....Avenger is a 30mm anti-tank gun.) But anyways....let me know what you guys think.:)

Fairchild Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II (TL 7)

Hull: 40 m^3, Airframe configuration ,Advanced Composites, Very Rugged Design. Hull 15, Structure 17
Drive System: Jet
Power Plant: Turbine-7, Power output: 360, Fuel Consumption: 45 liters/hr
Fuel 135 liters (3 hours operation) .
Armor: Advanced Composites 36
Weapons:
-Triple 60mm antitank gun (front, fixed internal, stabilized) Extra 30 shots
-70mm Strafing Rockets(x2, left and right wing, fixed external)
-Medium Missile(x10, 5 each wing, fixed, external)
Decoys:
-Flares(6)
-Chaff(6)
Sensors: Comprehensive (+2 DM, extended range: 9km)
Comms: Radio-1000
Equipment:
-Airflow device
-Improved Controls
-Ejector Seat
Operating Station: 1(cockpit)
Agility: +2 Dm
Speed: Cruise: 865kph Top: 1153 kph


Totals:
dTons: 40.0 m^3, mass: 19,508.05 kg Cost: 654,400 Cr.
 
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As for the gun: The 30mm GAU-8 is often overrated in publications like i,e the stuff from Tom "Propaganda Tommy" Clancy . It's penetration is not much better than that of WWII 37mm AT-guns(1) with the differences due to longer barrels and AP hard core ammo (The DU-Component is only a detail). It's effectiveness against tanks is due to the ability to attack the weakes armor of the tank - the top. If it hat to go up against the frontal armor of a tank even WWII tanks would laugh, load HE and blow the gun to next week


GAU-8 has 69mm at 500m from a barrel around 4m long
PAK-36 has 49mm at 500m from a barrel around 1.7m long

(Both firing AP/Hard core ammo, DU and Tungsten/Wolfram respectively)

So a WWII Panther tank would be unvulnerable against the GAU-8 across the frontal arc, often even befor armor sloping is taken into account. Same for the Leopard I. And neither is a "Panzerschwein"
 
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mbrinkhues said:
As for the gun: The 30mm GAU-8 is often overrated in publications like i,e the stuff from Tom "Propaganda Tommy" Clancy . It's penetration is not much better than that of WWII 37mm AT-guns(1) with the differences due to longer barrels and AP hard core ammo (The DU-Component is only a detail). It's effectiveness against tanks is due to the ability to attack the weakes armor of the tank - the top. If it hat to go up against the frontal armor of a tank even WWII tanks would laugh, load HE and blow the gun to next week
Click to expand...

Yea, well there's that detail of 3900 RPM for the GAU-8 vs 13 RPM for the Pak-36. So, sure, a single round may "bounce" but it's also going to abrade the armor at the point, which is handy for the 2 dozen or so close friends following right behind it.


The convenience of being bolted to an aircraft helps it avoid those nagging details of thicker armor as well. So, you can poo poo the cartridge, but combined with the gun, and even more so the aircraft (arguably the aircraft IS the gun, only now with missiles) makes the package quite formidable.

900+ Iraqi tanks have a different opinion as to the effectiveness of this package.

And Clancy's best use of the A-10 was in HfRO, when a flight surprised a Soviet frigate by popping flares around it.
 
whartung said:
...900+ Iraqi tanks have a different opinion as to the effectiveness of this package.
Click to expand...

Most Iraqi tank kills by the A-10's were attributed to Mavericks and bombs, not the A-10's guns. The guns can kill tanks yes, but it's debateable if they were the most effective means for killing tanks. Lighter targets certainly, to great effect.
 
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Honestly, I made my decision about the required AP by looking at the vehicles depicted in the book. A scout buggy, for instance, has an armor value of 8. I imagine this being some sort of jeep or Humvee, which im sorry, a 30mm round would cream it. The buggys armor would only be reduced by half from the heavy autocannon, so clearly that weapon is not what im looking for. Really, the next step up was the 60mm cannon, at least while staying within TL 7, which was my aim. I used three cannons for two reasons:

1) I needed to full my aircrafts volume....the A-10 isnt exactly a cargo hauler.

2) A 60mm cannon is a single shot weapon (assmumption) and I figured three cannons would at least simulate a high firing rate in game.

Furthermore:

As for the gun: The 30mm GAU-8 is often overrated in publications like i,e the stuff from Tom "Propaganda Tommy" Clancy . It's penetration is not much better than that of WWII 37mm AT-guns(1) with the differences due to longer barrels and AP hard core ammo (The DU-Component is only a detail). It's effectiveness against tanks is due to the ability to attack the weakes armor of the tank - the top. If it hat to go up against the frontal armor of a tank even WWII tanks would laugh, load HE and blow the gun to next week
Click to expand...

MGT doesnt factor in hit locations or facing arcs as far as I can tell. Therfore, an improved penetration rating could also abstractly fill in for the fact that the rounds are hitting weaker armor. The javelin missile system works under a similiar philosophy, and I would give that weapon system a higher armor piercing value then many other anti-armor weapons, due to its unique targeting system.
 
Apparition said:
Honestly, I made my decision about the required AP by looking at the vehicles depicted in the book...
Click to expand...

The best method imo :) We just got distracted by technical details ;)

So how does it work against something with real armour? A MBT say? Effective but not superior? A kill with a couple hundred rounds full-auto?


Apparition said:
A 60mm cannon is a single shot weapon (assumption) and I figured three cannons would at least simulate a high firing rate in game.
Click to expand...

If the cannon is single shot (any single shot weapon really) then figuring three is more than fair for simulating burst fire/full auto, imo.
 
far-trader said:
So how does it work against something with real armour? A MBT say? Effective but not superior? A kill with a couple hundred rounds full-auto?
Click to expand...

Well, a TL 7 MBT has 24 armor, well at least the one in the book does....My MBT's will have much more.

The armor ignored by the 60mm cannon is 24, so 10 armor for the tank. Average damage is 24.5...so 14-15 damage will penetrate per shot. This is an average of 2 single hits and a double hit. The average range is going to of course then be armor and hull hits. With a hull of 35, it will take several starfing runs with the guns in order to penetrate the hull.

I dunno...That seems pretty reasonable to me. With the maximum hit from "all three" guns, and all hits going to hull, it would take 2 maxiumum strafing runs to get internal damage.

The missiles on the other hand......well they suck. The light-Tac anti armor missile reads to me like a Maverick, but is TL 9. There doesnt seem to be any other tank-busters in the weapon list. I think the medium missiles might be a good representation of sidewinders though.
 
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I must recommend that you get the Central Supply Catalogue, which is the sister publication that includes a large range of weapons and armour, including gusn more suited for your purpose of making the GAU-8.

one of the ways it does this is by adding in different ammo types, including Hypervelocity ammo, which as a Ultimate-AP effect (ignores armour equal to x5 the weapons damage dice )

using a Heavy Autocannon (8d6 damage), this gives us a auto 6 weapon which can punch though 40 armour points.

that sound more like what you were after? the book also contains rules for making your own weapons, so it would not be too hard to create a missle more like what you seek.

1) I needed to full my aircrafts volume....the A-10 isnt exactly a cargo hauler.
Click to expand...

their are other options, such as adding in extra fuel storage (loiter time is always a benefit, as is extra range).


Well, a TL 7 MBT has 24 armor, well at least the one in the book does.

MGT doesnt factor in hit locations or facing arcs as far as I can tell.
Click to expand...

actually, it does, at least in the version of the rules I've seen (and the books i have). the TL7 MBT with 24 armour points actually has 40 points on the front, but only 10 on it's top and bottom arcs.

if i read the rules right:

when you buy a basic armour vaule of, say, 10 points, you are buying that armour value for all 6 facings (front/left/right/rear/top/bottom, as the stats list it). your hull type gives you a basic amount of armour that can't be moved, but all the armour you 'bought' in the armour section can be spread at will.

so, if you had a tank with a Advanced composites hull, and bought 10 points of armour for it, you would have 14 points of armour on all facings. you could then move that around, so long as each facing has at least 4 points on it, so, you could have a vehicle with 64 points of armour to it's front, but 4 to all other angles.


does that make sense?
 
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