Mongoose High Guard Fighter

[far-trader]

What with all the talk lately of Fighters and working on my grasp of MgT HG builds I figured "Let's see how much I can pack in a 20ton low tech fighter... "

Some interesting design differences between MgT and other rules. Presuming I didn't goof up anywhere along the way I've built it to a decent degree but find I have 1ton left. What to use it for? I can't decide and the options I came up with are pretty much mutually exclusive as far as variants. So, how about a survey? Let the people decide

Basics:

TL9 20ton Fighter. Streamlined Hull. Armor 9. Maneuver 9Gs. Power for 2 energy weapon points and fuel for 4 days. Cockpit with 2 seats (Pilot and Gunner) and Basic Electronics with a Model/2 Computer. Fixed triple weapon mount with 2 Beam Lasers and 1 Missile Launcher supported by a 1ton Magazine with 12 missiles.

So, what to do with the remaining 1ton? Please vote or suggest another idea. Thanks

 

[steventirey1985]

Assuming I read the rules correctly on page 61, a 20 ton small craft can only mount 1 ship weapon total (and 2 anti-personal weapons, which seem to be basically anything a man can carry like a FGMP). It couldn't have 2 beam lasers and a missile rack unless it was a minimum of 70 tons.

The example craft later in the book all seem to agree. The smallest small craft with 2 weapons is the 40 ton torpedo boat (each torpedo being treated as a separate weapon.) Both the 10 ton light fighter and 20 ton multipurpose fighter have a single weapon.

But the rules also don't make a lot of sense either. A 90 ton small craft can have 4 weapons, which take up 2 turrets. But a 100 ton starship is limited to a single hardpoint, so one turret with a maximum of 3 weapons.

 

[far-trader]

Yeah, I wasn't too sure how to read that. I mean small craft could always mount multiple turret weapons before. I took it to mean "turret", which is already limited by TL to single, double or triple.

EDIT: While I'm at it, what are the "weapon" spaces that a bay takes up then? I see a couple example small craft with bay weapons. Seems to me they'd be multiple and greater than 2

And 5 ship weapons on a 100ton hull? What's that about when a 100ton ship can only have 1 turret? Or is that something I've missed too?

EDIT: I suppose 5 ship "weapons" for a triple turret could support 2 particle beams and 1 other small turret weapon. Changes, gotta love them

I was going to check the designs to see how they were built for a clue but I was too rushed and posted first

Ah well, may need to fix that (or ignore it for my own use ) Or maybe I'll call it a dual laser beam with missile launcher bay (one bay = one "weapon" hehe)

 

[steventirey1985]

Apparently, small craft do not follow the 1 hardpoint per 100 tons rule. They have their own separate rules. The table says a 100 ton small craft can have 5 weapons.

Which, if you think about it, the table has to mean individual weapons, not turrets. Because if the number listed was the number of turrets, a 100 ton small craft could mount 5 triple turrets... which doesn't seem anywhere near correct.

Edit: As for the weapons bays, the only small craft that mounts a real bay is the bomber. (The multipurpose fighter doesn't mount a bay weapon - I think they mentioned its 3 ton weapon bay because it was modular. Easy to remove and fit with a different weapon). Since the bomber could fit 3 ship weapons, and only mounts 2, the bay could possibly take up 2 weapons slots. OF course, the bomber could also be undergunned, and only use 2 of its 3 potential slots.

And the core rules say a bay only takes up a single hardpoint and on tone of fire control - same as a turret, only much larger. So its possible to mount a weapon bay in any vessel that is physically big enough to fit a bay into.

 

[HG_B]

I voted "Other". If two days fuel, maybe the crew should get a fresher and cot like airline pilots get for long flights.

 

[far-trader]

Actually 4 days fuel (approximately) HG_B but that reminded me of the Metal Hydride storage option. So going with that for safety, reducing endurance to 2 days.

Yeah, I thought about crew endurance and a bunk but figure it's more of a doctrine of the fighters are always hot to scramble with crews resting in barracks or rotating shifts. So the ship is active for days or longer but the crews only operate aboard for hours.

I am still considering some creature comfort element though, good suggestion. Perhaps even a modular one with the cargo hold idea for long patrols or system crossing trips.

 

[far-trader]

I like the idea Mongoose seems to be aiming for with the "weapons" slots idea. That a full hardpoint (from a full 100tons) should get more/better mounting than on a sub-100ton craft. But my old school sense of mixed weapons on small craft is fighting it

And then the two(?) small craft designs with Bays still have me stymied as I thought the rule was they required a full (per 100tons) hardpoint?

I'm thinking I might (strictly mtu of course) apply it as a limit to the number of free (zero tonnage and cost) mounts (aka fixed mounts) instead, but still permit a full turret (single, double or triple per TL) if the fire control (1ton) and cost (of the turret) is paid. In that case there's my left over ton used

On that note I haven't seen a penalty for fixed mounts addressed yet. Did I miss it? I'll have to hunt for that or house rule it as I think there should be one.

 

[steventirey1985]

On that note I haven't seen a penalty for fixed mounts addressed yet. Did I miss it? I'll have to hunt for that or house rule it as I think there should be one.

Fixed weapon mounts aren't specifically called out, but the Point Defense rules on page 149 of the core book say "Turret lasers can be used to destroy incoming missiles." Since they specifically called out turret lasers, fixed lasers may not be able to work as point defense. But other than that, I can't find any other penalty.

 

[Matt123]

I don't have MG HG, can you shrink the fighter to say 18 ton or less & eliminate the spare ton that way?

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

I don't have MG HG, can you shrink the fighter to say 18 ton or less & eliminate the spare ton that way?

yes, but it's a waste of space. your "paying" for the 20 ton hull, in terms of max speed and engines sizes, so you might as well use all 20 tons.

 

[Jame]

My vote was cast for upgraded electronics, but if you don't do that, then my vote would become for extra munitions.

Actually 4 days fuel (approximately) HG_B but that reminded me of the Metal Hydride storage option. So going with that for safety, reducing endurance to 2 days.

Don't forget the rule in S&P about improved fuel endurance. That applies to fighters, even if the author didn't think to mention them (after all, I was listing the bare minimum for others to work from and add to).

 

[Mithras]

With a turret your fighter will resemble the old British fighter plane, the Bolton Paul Defiant.

 

[altasilvapuer]

I'm voting for a magazine/cargo space, because why have one magazine of missiles when you can have two for double the price?! This is, after all, a fighter, and thus prone to military logic.

I don't have access to the MgT rules to check, but if it's possible, it should be (semi-)modular magazine. As in, cargo space available, in case it's ever needed for some reasons, but the cargo hold can be completely filled with a modular magazine that matches the hold's interior when the extra payload is desirable.

-asp

 

[ThunderChilde]

I don't have HG with me here at work, but it does have rules for mountings I.E. fixed, turreted etc. along with clarifacations on F.C. You might also consider other options. Reinforced Hull and Reinforced Structure, perhaps Reinforced Bulkheads on the engines would make it a tougher to destroy little monster. It won't take that much space in a small fighter. Its ephemeral fluff, but your fight crews would be more confident in a craft built by the TU's equivalent of the Grumman Iron Works.
(Nickname for Grumman Aircraft, builders of the Wildcat, Hellcat, Avenger,Bearcat,Tigercat, Panther, Cougar, Tiger, Intruder, and Tomcat amoung many others.) Known for robust strength and durability, and for getting crews home even if it was pushed over the side after it got down.

 

[warwizard]

More reloads for the missiles, so you can put more hurt on an opponent before you go into beam range. high acceleration means you get to determine which range band you want.

Suguested tatic: get to the boundry between extreme and long range, launch missile at extreme, close range to long, launch missile the following round to impact same turn as the extreme range missile, go back to extreme range.

round N, 1 missile
round N+1, 2 missile
round N+2, 1 missile
round N+3, no missile

repeat this 6 times untill you are out of missiles.
The missiles the round preceeding and following the round with two missiles keeps the enemy honest, not pumping up his initiative from the previous round, nor stealing initiative from the next round.