More Char Gen Queries...

[The Dragon Master]

I know that during character creation you have to make your reenlistment roll or you will be forced from the service. But what happens if this is done after the first term? Is it possible to attempt enlistment in another branch? Or to try the draft? Or is that the end of the line?

Using the 1981 LBBs so far as that matters.

 

[far-trader]

Strictly by the books you muster out and start adventuring.

But you might allow the character to pursue some post career experience first, outside of game time flow. That won't unbalance things for short term characters. I wouldn't allow it after term 3 though. Check page 42-43 of Book 2.

Or, as I'm sure many of us have done, allow new enlistment attempts but draft only at age 18. At one point we allowed enlistment attempts in any career not already done or where you failed enlistment up to term 3. Nobody wants to take you in once you start showing your age so no additional enlistments after term 4.

 

[far-trader]

One thing that may come up, mixing basic career gen (Book 1 and Supp 4) with advanced career gen (Books 4, 5, 6 and 7) generally won't go down well. It's best to keep to one or the other for any single group. Some will tell you they are balanced but I don't buy it

Not saying the two can't play nice together, but it may mean more work at the least, and explaining to the basic gen 3 term soldier why his character doesn't have all the fun stuff and extra skills and different skills that his friend's advanced gen 3 term soldier does.

 

[far-trader]

burnin down the house...

Should I be the first to light the fire :smirk:

That would be the debate on the merits of failing survival in char gen means death, roll another character vs failing survival in char gen means short term muster out with minor (healed fully) injury.

There's pros and cons to both. And debates aplenty around here, and elsewhere, on it. Traveller is (in)famous for that death in chargen rule.

If you want to talk about it just say the word and they'll post :devil:

If you'd rather take the blue pill... nobody will post on it here. Everybody hear that

(I'm sure you get the Matrix reference, blue pill you go to sleep and wake up believing what you want to believe... )

 

[The Dragon Master]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm not sure what I'll end up ruling on the mustering out bit. I've only just started reading the books and I'd probably do well to read them through before making any rule changing decisions (despite my other posts here so far), but I figured I'd seek out verification that I didn't miss something.

As for the character death on survival roll, I wouldn't mind hearing peoples thoughts on it (so long as we keep it a friendly discussion).

 

[Jeffr0]

Death!

Use it; accept it. Death is your friend.

The char-gen design depends upon it-- everyone in the party will be old if you don't risk death. Also... really good characters don't reenlist-- it's too risky. Risking death makes char-gen more of a game unto itself.

If you get bad attributes, try to kill off the character.

If you muster out after one term... try to find a psionic institute!

 

[far-trader]

I agree it is best if you feel out the game for yourself as you're doing. I envy you the discovery So I'm loathe to jump in too much "future" stuff for you but answering any questions you have is no problem. I, we, just have to watch that we don't dump too much unrelated info in the process and spoil your adventure.

I'm sure the folks can be friendly about it, it's not really that flamey a topic or I wouldn't have broached it. Well some can take it too far but we'll all be on our best behaviour here, riiight?

In brief (and all just my opinion)...

A - Death in chargen makes it a real gambling mini game. The player has to constantly balance the odds of living against the potential gain (in skills, rank, muster benefits, retirement pay) and loss (due to aging rolls) for the term. It's a fine dance of "I want skill-X but I just got skill-Y which is cool too, and I may lose stats going one more term, or die." So you tend to see more mid avg term characters, 3-4 and very rarely any long term characters. And it really doesn't take long to gen characters this way.

The death rule also, for me and many at least, tends to cause us to invest more personality into the character. And if the player rolled really badly for stats the death rule is sometimes an out, just enlist in the Scouts and go until your character dies, and roll a new one. This can "backfire" I once rolled sucky stats, and promptly enlisted in the Scouts to kill it and try again (our group at the time played "you roll it you play it"). The character would not die, went 6 or 7 terms and finally mustered out, with much improved stats, lots of great skills, and a Type S to tool around in. My favorite character. Part way through trying to kill him I was really starting to like him and the "history" and wanted to muster out voluntarily, wouldn't you know I rolled mandatory reenlistment, and was pretty nervous about that survival roll.

B - If you use the muster out rule there's really nothing keeping players from staying in career gen until they fail survival or reenlistment or face forced retirement, so you'll tend to get much older characters, 7 terms not being unheard of. Not that it's a bad thing but it does skew the game and tends to make the characters less special imo. It tends to take longer to gen characters too, not much though, so it balances out with the occassional repeat gen required in the death rules.

I certainly wouldn't mix the soft survival failure rule with any multi-career one though, but then that might work fine for your group too.

C - Best advice might be to try both and see what works. I'd say start with the death rule, see how everyone likes it, or not. Because once you use the soft survival there's probably no going back, not easily anyway. Save the characters generated of course, they can always be brought in as NPCs or replacement PCs when the other character is elsewhere engaged.

 

[aramis]

Death!

Use it; accept it. Death is your friend.

The char-gen design depends upon it-- everyone in the party will be old if you don't risk death.

Wrong. Under CT & MT, the failed survival ends you with a short term, and no further CGen other than taking your mustering out benefits. You get the skill for the term if your Ref is nice, and you get out.

One career is the axiom that controls abuses, not death.

 

[Jeffr0]

Wrong. Under CT & MT, the failed survival ends you with a short term, and no further CGen other than taking your mustering out benefits. You get the skill for the term if your Ref is nice, and you get out.

One career is the axiom that controls abuses, not death.

Hruh?

You're talking about the *optional* survival rule. (Book 1, page 10.) At least in CT it's optional. But the rules are better without that lame concession. By default, though, "failure to successfully achieve the survival throw results in death; a new character must be generated."

 

[aramis]

In MT it's not optional, but standard.

In any case, it's NOT a game breaker. Allowing a second career is.

 

[The Dragon Master]

In MT it's not optional, but standard. .

Just for the record, I'm using CT not MT.

In any case, it's NOT a game breaker. Allowing a second career is.

I can see how that would be the case in general (like if someone ran through the merchant career, and then through the scout career in an attempt to get both ships), though I have a hard time seeing how that would be the case if they only had the chance to run through one term. I'm sure that's the kind of thing that playing through a couple sessions/campaigns would make clear.

 

[Kaveman Koder]

This is a house rule/mistake in reading,

Using the Other rules from Supplement 04 Citizens of the Imperium.

If the Character fails to re-enlist before reaching 5 terms they are drafted into another "Other" profession.

This is based on the idea that you've got to "work" somewhere or the Imperium becomes full of the unemployed.

If you don't want allow this for PCs, it can be used to create some very interesting NPC.

 

[coliver988]

actually, that rule I read is only for the 1st attempt in enlistment:

"Should an individual fail to make the enlistment throw, he or she must find another career to follow. Attempts at enlistment in other careers should be made"

The re-enlistment indicates "...a character is free to leave a career..." and then "...if the throw is not made, the individual must leave the career and character generation ends."

(GDW, Supplement 4, pages 3 & 4)

 

[aramis]

The CT philosophy seems to have been that "Adventurers" begin adventuring after a single career; people satified enough to keep working don't become adventurers.

 

[coliver988]

The CT philosophy seems to have been that "Adventurers" begin adventuring after a single career; people satified enough to keep working don't become adventurers.

Exactly. Which is why most player characters are not retirees out & about in their RVs (and somewhere I found the Traveller RV based on the cutter but heck if I can find it again)

 

[Kaveman Koder]

Opps, that didn't read well...

This is a house rule/mistake in reading,

should read

This is MY house rule/mistake in reading,

I agree "normally" PCs would only have a single service.

 

[Supplement Four]

Death!

Use it; accept it. Death is your friend.

The char-gen design depends upon it-- everyone in the party will be old if you don't risk death.

This is true.

If you don't use the Survival Rule, as written (not the alternate rule), it really changes chargen.

Definitely stick to your guns and make PCs die if they fail Survival throws. The player has to start over with a new character.

Do this, and you'll see it influence his choices of career and such.

 

[Jeffr0]

Yes... it's the psychological nuance and the feeling that actions have consequences even in char-gen that really does it-- it sets the tone for the entire game.

I think this facet is key to understanding CT's unique sf sub-genre:

CT offered a new subgenre where hard SF mixed with noir situations, offering easy, deadly violence. CT achieved all of this within the realm of RPGs, establishing a brand that was the reigning standard for several years, yet this success did not trigger a “hard noir” or “spaghetti SF” trend in written SF.

http://www.irosf.com/q/zine/article/10119

 

[aramis]

S4, My experience is that most players I've run for will keep going until they get that 4+ term guy they want, UNLESS you use the alternate survival rule.

Short term tends to put YOUNGER characters in play.

 

[Jeffr0]

If it's about getting the exact skill that they want, I think it would be better to utilize the sabatical rules to customize characters that have mustered out... or some other application of the experience rules.