Mothballed Ships

[Vargr]

What would you say is the average service time for a starship before it gets mothballed, assuming it doesn't meet any unfortunate accidents?

It seems to me that mothballed ships represent a potential market to be tapped by Travellers who wish to get an "el cheapo" ship and avoid being saddled with a usurious mortgage .

MGT has a system to determine ship degradation according to its age, I'm working on a system to calculate how much a ship taken from from the huge Imperial surplus of mothballed fleets. It would be sort of like buying an old WWII rifle that has been dipped in cosmoline for the past decades. But exactly how old (service time) would such a ship be?

 

[Theophilus]

Various sources list different times. For instance, supp9 fighting ships says some chrysanthemum de's have been in service for a century. While supp5 AHL, has the Azhanti class laid down in 991, and being declared obsolete, and mothballed in 1048. So a service life of 57 years. In 1077 28 ships were reactivated as FI's, Arrival Vengeance served til 1114, While Folio adventure Arrival Vengeance removed from mothball in 1125. So For Arrival Vengeance it would be: Laid down 1003, first flight 1005. Mothballed 1048? so 45 years.
Converted to FI 1082 til 1114, so 32 years.
Reactivated in 1125 til ???

Service life: 77 years+

 

[vitalis6969]

What would you say is the average service time for a starship before it gets mothballed, assuming it doesn't meet any unfortunate accidents?

It seems to me that mothballed ships represent a potential market to be tapped by Travellers who wish to get an "el cheapo" ship and avoid being saddled with a usurious mortgage .

MGT has a system to determine ship degradation according to its age, I'm working on a system to calculate how much a ship taken from from the huge Imperial surplus of mothballed fleets. It would be sort of like buying an old WWII rifle that has been dipped in cosmoline for the past decades. But exactly how old (service time) would such a ship be?

Old military and corporate surplus features heavily in my games. In MTU, an old ship would be in the 50 to 100 year range. It would also be fairly beat on but most definitely better than playing the yawn filled Traveller trade and mortgage game.

I use a modified version of Twilight 2K vehicle breakdown rules and it has led to some Millennium Falcon style hilarity at the game table. They don't mind the repairs because in their words, the ship may be an old piece of crap, but it is THEIR old piece of crap...

 

[Yavin_Prime]

I'd love to play with an old Lightning-class ship but I don't have any of the rules for those ships. I still need to buy the book that shows the stats and interior for that class.

I could see the military selling older ships though after they had taken the military grade tactical systems off of it.

 

[mbrinkhues]

TNE had rules for ship repair, ship aging etc.

From the 40year mortgage present in all games I would assume a regularly maintained cargo ship will have a 60-80 years productive lifetime. After all a ship starts "making money" only after it is payed of. Technology advances don't matter much for freighters so mothballing them is only done in case of over-capacity (Similar to IRL ships and airliners)

The lifetime of a warship is defined by technology and the capabilities it has for upgrades. IRL many ships where mothballed in the 1950s/60s when modern technology made them obsolete sometimes mere years after they where introduced. Planes where even more extrem, look at the turnover rate between 1945 and 1965.

In general ships will age differently.

A 600dton TypM that has spend all it's life as designed never landing on a planet, never skimming fuel is likely in prime condition after the 40 years. As a Subby he got regular maintenance and as a pure spaceship it suffered little hull-stress. Maybe some work on the upholstery and paint but otherwise you are fine

A 200ton A2 that has spend all it's life on the frontier, sometimes skipping maintenance and doing lot's of landing and skimming OTOH is might be quite banged up and in need of some major hull and structure work

 

[rancke]

From the 40year mortgage present in all games I would assume a regularly maintained cargo ship will have a 60-80 years productive lifetime. After all a ship starts "making money" only after it is payed of.

Ships make a return on investment from Day One[*]. That's why you pay back 300%[**] of the original loan over those 40 years. In my economic calculations I always include a similar return on the owner's 20% investment.

[*] Well... Day 31.

[**] You borrow 80% of the ship's value and pay back a total of 240%.​

Hans

 

[morfydd]

How old can spaceship get

Well I am going to take a spot from real life Pioneer 6 is still in operation in orbit around the Sun at 0.8 AU's (Between Earth and Venus for distance) and was launched back in 1965 so its approaching 46 years of age and still going strong (oldest space craft still in service ..so far it hasnt failed and its expected to reach 100 years with zero maintenace)

The Oldest B-52 still in service went online in 1961 ..so its 50 years old

CVN 65 (USS Enterprise) Was placed in service in 1961 its 50 years old

USS Constitution (Old Iron Sides) went in service in 1798..she still serves as a training ship..and can sail under her own power ..

The John W Brown (1942) and Jerimiah OBrien(1943) still serve as cargo vessels ( Old Liberty Ships) ..

The Dulous is the oldest passenger ship afloat built back in 1914..

Douglas DC-3's and Variants(C-47, C-50) are in use all over the world still
first ones came off the line in 1935 of the 16,000 Manufactured over a decade period some 400+ are still in regular passenger/cargo service (the last one rolled of the line as an LC2 in Russia back in 1945) so assuming the oldest ones have been retired the ones still flying regular are all at least 65 years of age..

These are all Tech 4-6 craft ..still in service so I would say figure 15 years times tech level as a minimum service life for landers/skimmer ships
and at least twice that if they are space to space only ..

So long as they are maintained...

 

[Vargas]

I'd love to play with an old Lightning-class ship but I don't have any of the rules for those ships. I still need to buy the book that shows the stats and interior for that class.

All of that is in the Classic Traveller CD from Far Future Enterprises.

 

[mbrinkhues]

IMHO one should be careful comparing the maintenance needs for pre-computer wet navy ships and the heavily computerized ships of today. The elder ship can (mostly) be repaired using rather basic tech that is widely availabel. So maybe fixing the ship is done with modern welding or woodworking but it can be done.

Modern ships and some specialist ships can't be repaired that easily. Simply because the parts are running out. There may be a few left for museum ships/oldtimers but most of the time once the stuff is gone, it's gone. Extrem example is the Charles de Gaule aircraft carrier and her screws that could not be replaced (using an older, less powerful set from the Foch) for years due the lack of manufacturing capacities. For a while you can scavenge but then FIN.

 

[Gray Lensman]

These are all Tech 4-6 craft ..still in service so I would say figure 15 years times tech level as a minimum service life for landers/skimmer ships and at least twice that if they are space to space only ..

So long as they are maintained...

Just added to my house rules, thank you. Tend to agree, most business/military/industry ect would do long range planning in which they would assume a certain effective lifetime for vessels.

 

[Gray Lensman]

All of that is in the Classic Traveller CD from Far Future Enterprises.

Don't forget Megatraveller's "Arrival Vengeance: The Final Odyssey"

 

[ssgbryan]

Don't forget Megatraveller's "Arrival Vengeance: The Final Odyssey"

Bad scans tho'

 

[rancke]

IMHO one should be careful comparing the maintenance needs for pre-computer wet navy ships and the heavily computerized ships of today. The elder ship can (mostly) be repaired using rather basic tech that is widely availabel. So maybe fixing the ship is done with modern welding or woodworking but it can be done.

Modern ships and some specialist ships can't be repaired that easily. Simply because the parts are running out. There may be a few left for museum ships/oldtimers but most of the time once the stuff is gone, it's gone. Extrem example is the Charles de Gaule aircraft carrier and her screws that could not be replaced (using an older, less powerful set from the Foch) for years due the lack of manufacturing capacities. For a while you can scavenge but then FIN.

But at future tech levels it may become very simple to produce spare parts. Load up the template, fill the resevoirs of your 3D printer, and "print" a new dohickey.


Hans

 

[Gray Lensman]

Bad scans tho'

Funny, My hard copy looks just fine. :rofl:

I am missing only three titles from CT. MT and TNE. (yeah I have the CDs for the fasa and JG and others but GDW and DGP I have.)