Naval Question: "Laid Down"

[Maladominus]

Hi all

I have a quick naval question, since I do not have any prior navy or military service experience (which many players here seem to have).

In many GDW supplements, ships of a class are often listed as "Laid Down" on a certain date.

I wanted to know what laid down implies. Is that the date when the ship's construction was "finished"? Or is that the date when construction was started?

Obviously this is different from date of "First Flight", since in GDW Adventure 1 The Kinunir, each ship has a date for Laid Down, and a different date for First Flight. Thanks for answers.

 

[BillDowns]

The date "Laid down" is the construction start date.

The date "Launched" is the date the ship is able to float on its own; note construction is not complete - just the hull and the main machinary.

The date "Commissioned" is when the ship enters active service; note that a trials period, of a few months, and Acceptance has generally preceded Commissioning.

I am not sure how one would link "Launch" date with Traveller. In the real Naval world, the boilers, turbines (or engines for old ships) are not replaced on a whim, as the hull has to opened up like a can of sardines. IMTU, I only allow jump, maneuver, or generator changes after a very long dry dock period and great cost.

 

[Border Reiver]

Just to clarify for laid down.

The expression refers to laying down the keel of a ship/boat. This was the spine of a boat and its construction and placement in the cradle around which the rest of the ship would be built was not just a date from which to judge how long taken to build but (in Scotland anyhow, Clydeside especially) a time to celebrate. (any excuse really)

 

[BillDowns]

For a Navy man, any of those dates are ones to celebrate.

BTW, "plankowners" is the sobriquet given to the crew that trials and commissions the ship.

 

[Ran Targas]

As Retreiver has stated, it refers to when the keel was laid.

 

[aramis]

The important dates:

Ordered: the date the contract was signed
Laid Down: the date the first bits arrived in the construction slip
Topped Out: The date at which she's capable of operating under own power.
First Flight: The first time she moves under her own power and control.
Trials: Usually, first flight to commissioning. Not always.
Commissioned: The date that she's formally accepted as a ship and not just a hull in process
In Service: the date she is turned over to her owning fleet/captain
Retired: The date the ship is taken out of service. She may be mothballed, abandoned, sold, refit, rebuilt, scrapped or even set aside for training, seconded to an acadamy or such. Technically, retired ships are still in commission unless otherwise noted.
Mothballed: the date(s) during which she is in storage
Decommissioned: The date she officially becomes a pile of scrap.

 

[JAFARR]

Several US Navy WWII battleships were de-commissioned, mothballed and then overhauled and re-comissioned for use as offshore bombardment platforms during the Vietnam Conflict. Then they were de-commissioned again and scrapped. It seems that a guided missle cruiser can do a better job for a lot less money.

 

[BetterThanLife]

One of them kept coming back, the U.S.S. New Jersey. And the Iowa class, to the best of my knowledge and belief, still haven't been scrapped. though the Iowa itself may have been (because of that little fiasco in the number 2 gun turret) and the Big Mo (U.S.S. Missouri) is a Museum now, so is unlikely to be scrapped. But I think the Wisconson and the New Jersey are back in storeage. The New Jersey was brought back for Korea, again for Viet Nam and came back, with its sisters after the Falklands and served until after Desert Storm. It seems that 16 inch (406mm) guns have some advantages to missiles. Though the last incarnation of the New Jersey had 32 Tomahawk launchers and 16-32 Harpoon launchers to complement the 9 16in guns and the 16-20 5in (127mm) guns. (I don't recall if they removed one turret per side or two of the secondary armament, but I thought they removed something, originally there were 5 dual 5 in. turrets per side.) For Viet Nam they did remove virtually all of the Tertiary armament, ranging from 12.7mm machineguns (aka 50 cal) to 40mm bufors but when they brought the ships back in the 80s they did add Phalanx (20mm close in air defense.) There is still something to say to throwing volleys of two ton shells at your enemy.

 

[Chaos]

Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
One of them kept coming back, the U.S.S. New Jersey. And the Iowa class, to the best of my knowledge and belief, still haven't been scrapped. though the Iowa itself may have been (because of that little fiasco in the number 2 gun turret) and the Big Mo (U.S.S. Missouri) is a Museum now, so is unlikely to be scrapped. But I think the Wisconson and the New Jersey are back in storeage. The New Jersey was brought back for Korea, again for Viet Nam and came back, with its sisters after the Falklands and served until after Desert Storm. It seems that 16 inch (406mm) guns have some advantages to missiles. Though the last incarnation of the New Jersey had 32 Tomahawk launchers and 16-32 Harpoon launchers to complement the 9 16in guns and the 16-20 5in (127mm) guns. (I don't recall if they removed one turret per side or two of the secondary armament, but I thought they removed something, originally there were 5 dual 5 in. turrets per side.) For Viet Nam they did remove virtually all of the Tertiary armament, ranging from 12.7mm machineguns (aka 50 cal) to 40mm bufors but when they brought the ships back in the 80s they did add Phalanx (20mm close in air defense.) There is still something to say to throwing volleys of two ton shells at your enemy.

There is also something to be said for all that armor, I suppose. They don´t build´em with such amounts of armor nowadays.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

"the Big Mo (U.S.S. Missouri) is a Museum now, so is unlikely to be scrapped."

But the starboard launch tube is now a gift shop...

 

[dm_dracos]

in regards to what was taken off, i believe it was the original 127 mm guns to make rom for the tammys and harpoons, but i could be wrong
Dracos

 

[dm_dracos]

errr tommys, lol

 

[mbrinkhues]

Don't those dates also correspond with some payments? IIRC a ship (even IRL) is not payed in one piece but rather in three or four. IIRC:

+ One when the keel is laid down (or stretched as it's called in germany)

+ One when the ship floats on its own

+ One when the owner accepts her

 

[JAFARR]

Originally posted by Michael Brinkhues:
Don't those dates also correspond with some payments? IIRC a ship (even IRL) is not payed in one piece but rather in three or four. IIRC:

+ One when the keel is laid down (or stretched as it's called in germany)

+ One when the ship floats on its own

+ One when the owner accepts her

Maybe for civilian ships. As far as the U.S. government goes, it seems that they place the order and pay installments for the life of the ship. It is called a lease. That's what I have been told anyway. Not too sure that my informant was correct. I do know for sure that the Navy's nuclear power training facilities are run by the companies that actually manufacture those specific power plants. The navy leases them from the companies for cost plus $1 a year. Of course the companies also use them to train their own operators and engineers so they can add those expenses to the cost of operations. At least that was true back in the 1970's when I was going to prototype.