New features I may have missed in basic Mongoose rules?

[l_c_jackson]

Having used the excellent Mongoose Pocket Rulebook for over 18 months I had a bit of a shock when I read the new law level table carefully for the first time! Law level restrictions on the tech level of items, permitted types of software, controls on the activities of visitors, and the use of psionics are (AFAIK) entirely new. I made the mistake of assuming that this table would be backwards compatible with previous versions (I know Classic and MegaTraveller). This is not a complaint (the changes seem to be an improvement), just an excuse for missing them before.

Are there any other areas where (the awsome) Gareth Hanrahan has made _significant_ changes to Traveller in these basic rules, which might not be immediately obvious to the busy/lazy reader like myself?

Many thanks in advance!

 

[aramis]

Having used the excellent Mongoose Pocket Rulebook for over 18 months I had a bit of a shock when I read the new law level table carefully for the first time! Law level restrictions on the tech level of items, permitted types of software, controls on the activities of visitors, and the use of psionics are (AFAIK) entirely new. I made the mistake of assuming that this table would be backwards compatible with previous versions (I know Classic and MegaTraveller). This is not a complaint (the changes seem to be an improvement), just an excuse for missing them before.

Are there any other areas where (the awsome) Gareth Hanrahan has made _significant_ changes to Traveller in these basic rules, which might not be immediately obvious to the busy/lazy reader like myself?

Many thanks in advance!

Passage Prices. (Badly broken by being too low for everything but cargo)
Financing Rules.
Ship Maintenance. monthly, not annual
Damage to ships - Not reduce by 1 letter per hit...
Damage to Attributes - Con First, not random
System Generation - Starport LAST not First, and linked to Pop.

 

[Starviking]

System Generation - Starport LAST not First, and linked to Pop.

Does this mean there will be an update of existing Traveller UWPs in the future?

 

[aramis]

Does this mean there will be an update of existing Traveller UWPs in the future?

I wouldn't count on it.

T5 still uses the old sequence.

 

[Starviking]

I wouldn't count on it.

T5 still uses the old sequence.

Darn! So an Imperium with a preponderance of high-pop, low-tech, low-port worlds (well, as it seems to me).

 

[far-trader]

Darn! So an Imperium with a preponderance of high-pop, low-tech, low-port worlds (well, as it seems to me).

Only if people continue to slavishly adhere to the rule of the roll, ignore the intelligence and imagination they have to take the random rolls as a starting point rather than the end, and simply change that which they cannot live with to something they can. No set of random rolls and tables is ever going to properly generate a perfect simulation of reality.

On the other hand one could take that the system IS the perfect simulation of the reality of the game and that yes there are in fact worlds with low or no pop and high tech high starports. And high pop, low tech, low starports. And high pop tiny hell worlds right next to low pop large garden worlds. etc., etc...

And of course it won't be a preponderance of any one type if the random is properly generated, it'll be an equal probability of any mix. Our brains though are hardwired to make associations that make some things seem more significant.

...anyway, end rant

 

[Starviking]

Only if people continue to slavishly adhere to the rule of the roll, ignore the intelligence and imagination they have to take the random rolls as a starting point rather than the end, and simply change that which they cannot live with to something they can. No set of random rolls and tables is ever going to properly generate a perfect simulation of reality.

On the other hand one could take that the system IS the perfect simulation of the reality of the game and that yes there are in fact worlds with low or no pop and high tech high starports. And high pop, low tech, low starports. And high pop tiny hell worlds right next to low pop large garden worlds. etc., etc...

And of course it won't be a preponderance of any one type if the random is properly generated, it'll be an equal probability of any mix. Our brains though are hardwired to make associations that make some things seem more significant.

...anyway, end rant

Well, I'd need to go back and pore over Traveller Map, but I recall thinking that there are an awful lot of low-tech, High Pop members of the Imperium (and a lot of badly named ones, but that's a different matter).

 

[aramis]

Well, I'd need to go back and pore over Traveller Map, but I recall thinking that there are an awful lot of low-tech, High Pop members of the Imperium (and a lot of badly named ones, but that's a different matter).

There are an awfully lot of badly named cities, towns and villages in the US, too. Knikniknik, Eeg, Iggagik, Tok, Hell...

 

[Spinward Scout]

Hell

How is that badly named? Hell freezes over every winter in the state of Michigan and gives the Cubs hope of winning the World Series.



And now back to your regularly scheduled Traveller thread.

 

[aramis]

How is that badly named? Hell freezes over every winter in the state of Michigan and gives the Cubs hope of winning the World Series.



And now back to your regularly scheduled Traveller thread.

I know some Michiganders who refuse to say it because of their religious beliefs. (I'm related to at least one.)

 

[far-trader]

There are an awfully lot of badly named cities, towns and villages in the US, too... Hell...

How is that badly named...

I know some Michiganders who refuse to say it because of their religious beliefs. (I'm related to at least one.)

Two possible saves for the God fearing Michiganders:

Merriam-Webster:
Hell : archaic : a tailor's receptacle

One theory on the naming of Hell, MI:
"...a pair of German travelers stepped out of a stagecoach one sunny afternoon in the 1830s, and one said to the other, "So schön hell!" - translated as, "So beautifully bright!" Their comments were overheard by some locals and the name stuck."

...I'm not sure I'd buy either one

EDIT: p.s. Advise said relative not to travel to or through Arizona, the USGS lists 60 places with Hell as part of the name in 1994, and I'm pretty sure they're all temperature related and comparitive to the other place

 

[HiverLord]

There are an awfully lot of badly named cities, towns and villages in the US, too. Knikniknik, Eeg, Iggagik, Tok, Hell...

Gackle, Zap (both in North Dakota, though I may have the first spelled incorrectly...)
Truth Or Consequences (yes, renamed after the old game show)

 

[Starviking]

There are an awfully lot of badly named cities, towns and villages in the US, too. Knikniknik, Eeg, Iggagik, Tok, Hell...

But are they oddities in their area?

Here's an example, Delphi Subsector N:

*Pepsi
Eysellt
*Jacobite
*De Thorneclay
*Lavoisier
*Mcconnell
Belthan
Beowulf
*Barett
Martis
Bane
Monticello
*Bert
*Mccluskey
*Turkish
Mancournes
Metheri
*Francine
Campe
Wardrop
Riverfield
Ril
Urbana
Mikkim
Medsa
Cabot
Pecos
Drusolo
Ffuntayns
*Wandesforth
*Ginger
*Mcnaughton

One third of the names are odd, people's names and surnames - and as for Pepsi and Turkish, that's out there.

It seriously breaks the suspension of disbelief.

 

[steventirey1985]

It seriously breaks the suspension of disbelief.

What exactly breaks the suspension of disbelief? Since I doubt every world or colony in a subsector was discovered/founded/named by the same person (or same group), it makes sense there is a mix of different naming styles/languages.

Explorers named places they found after themselves all of the time, or named them for their loved ones. Others names were descriptive - the world of Riverfield could of been named after the first colony on the world, which just happened to be in a field by a river. Places could of also been named in the founders/discoverers native language. Some place names sound perfectly fine in their native language, but sound silly or stupid in other languages. There is a town in Austria I can't name here, because the name is offensive in English.

Then again, there are places that were purposely given silly/stupid names, like the following:

Putting the problem in context, however, tz-online notes that numerous villages across the border in Germany have names that are "unfortunate" even in German, including Affendorf (Monkey Village), Faulebutter (Putrid Butter), Fickmühlen (F*ck Mill), Himmelreich (Kingdom of Heaven), Katzenhirn (Cat Brain), Plöd (Stupid), Regenmantel (Raincoat), Sklavenhaus (Slave House) and Warzen (Warts).

If there are silly, stupid, or offensive place names in our world, why shouldn't there in space as well?

(The only name in that list I find odd would be Pepsi, but that is only because of the soft drink of the same name.)

 

[Starviking]

It's not offensive, silly or stupid names - it's that they make no sense.

Look at Delphi (and other sectors too) and you'll finds systems named Turkish, Irishmen, Jacobite, Cretan, Mexican, Yugoslav, Napoleonic

Why would explorers name planets after descriptors of peoples or eras? It makes no sense at all. Novy Jugoslavia, Hibernia Nua perhaps - but Yugoslav? Di the planet look like a Yugoslavian? Irishmen - was the planet always fighting with itself?

And as for Pepsi, it's got Pabst, Catan, Frigidaire to keep it company. Zarkov, Winnie and Koenig too. Stoneburner from Dune!

Lets not forget the Gaelic phone directory either - McNaughton, Francine, McConnell, McCluskey, Cabra, McKenna, McAllister, Breandan, Letycia, Ceileachan, McCallum, McDonald, Teresa, Kennedy, McPherson, and probably some more I've missed.

So, welcome to the Far Future, sponsored by the Irish and Scottish Phone Books, the Oxford Book of descriptors, Pepsi, amongst others.

I stand by my assertion.

Serious suspension of disbelief.

 

[far-trader]

So what would you have named them? What methods would you have employed? I dunno about you but Wxig'ceic HHoiewch* doesn't exactly trip off the tongue for humans

* "different" naming methodology #1 - random key bashing

The only ones in Traveller that ever stretched my belief suspenders are the ones that sound like bad jokes if you say them right (or wrong) but seem innocent enough until you do. None pop into my mind now and I don't feel like looking but I think you know the ones I mean.

 

[l_c_jackson]

Thanks for the startling list, Marquis Aramis. I'm pleased to find that the Endurance attribute takes damage first, that makes sense. However monthly starship maintenance would appear to put most freelance pirates out of business! Semi-official pirates with letters of marque would be OK, but others would surely struggle to keep going?

 

[far-trader]

Oh yeah, that's what this thread was about

Aramis is on a personal leave of absence for a bit... curious phrase, what else would a "leave" be if not "absence"? A leave of presence? Anyway, wandering mind briefly reined in I can take a stab at an answer until he returns...

Yep, pirates without a base would indeed be hard pressed to operate under the rules as written for maintenance. There are rules for maintenance away from base and underway in some older sources, I'm pretty sure anyway. Those would be the method used. That or simply, as wet pirates of old would sometimes do, upgrade to a ship that isn't falling apart by capture, and leave your victims to the sinking stinking wreck you came in on

Or note the bit above about "without a base" and ponder that there might be a secret pirate base out there somewhere...

...of course that all presumes you jump through the multiple hoops to justify space pirates at all

EDIT: answering my own pondering for my own indulgence I suppose a "leave of absence" is probably in the sense of being granted "leave" (permission) of (for) absence

 

[McPerth]

But having such a base would restrict your privateers to a slow area, so making them vulnerable (if they have to return to the base evrey month, its opperations would be restricted to one jump distance, two at most).

I'm more inclined to believe this maintenance can be paid in advance (taking the spares you need with your ship, even if they require some space in your hold) and be performed by your own crew, in such a situation.

And scout ships would have the same problems, once they leave known (or even friendly) space. How did the Zhodani manage to do its core expeditions?

 

[far-trader]

But having such a base would restrict your privateers to a slow area, so making them vulnerable (if they have to return to the base evrey month, its opperations would be restricted to one jump distance, two at most)...

And scout ships would have the same problems, once they leave known (or even friendly) space. How did the Zhodani manage to do its core expeditions?

Both issues have the same solution of course, a mobile (jump capable) base. There are canon designs of IN mobile bases/yards for just such purposes. Nothing says pirates, scouts, or whoever (with the proper resources/funding/backing) couldn't have something similar

EDIT: The problems with doing the maintenance yourself, away from the support structure of a base (in the "field"), go beyond mere parts. There's heavy tools, the need to shut systems down, specialized knowledge and training that mere crews are unlikely to have. To name three issues off the top of my head.

EDIT 2: Another quick canon example that should have popped into my mind quicker with your note about Scout ships, the X-Boat Tender. A 1000ton starship capable of servicing up to 2 100ton ships (Scout/Couriers are even mentioned so it's not exclusively for X-Boats, but presumably able to maintain any 100ton (x2 simultaneous) or maybe even a 200ton (x1 at a time) starship. So there's a handy rule of thumb for support ships, 5 to 1 tonnage. The classic 400ton corsair would need a base of 2,000tons to maintain it. There would be economies of scale beyond a certain point but for small ships the 5 to 1 seems reasonable.