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No more Megawatts

Ive noticed that the simpler system in MT2300 has come with a price in color. Gone are the references to megawatts where powerplants and drives are concerned. Ill be honest, they are missed. That kind of technical color lent an air of realism to the game. Ive been trying to plug it back in but the two systems (Classic and Traveller) are so different as to make anything but a "pull a factor out of your butt" almost impossible.

Anybody else miss some of the gritty detail in the classic rules?

And while Im at it, let me ask what do you guys use as a rule of thumb for computing mass to volume for cargo? If I have 100 tons of cargo space, how does that measure out if I want to fit an airplane in there knowing the length and wingspan etc.? or do you just stick to tonnage?
 
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And while Im at it, let me ask what do you guys use as a rule of thumb for computing mass to volume for cargo? If I have 100 tons of cargo space, how does that measure out if I want to fit an airplane in there knowing the length and wingspan etc.? or do you just stick to tonnage?

100 tons of *space*? Don't confuse metric tonnage with displacement tonnage.
It sounds like a carryover from Traveller tonnage, where tons = volume. I think it's maritime jargon for tons of seawater displacement, that thinking worked its way into Traveller as "1 ton if liquid hydrogen displacement", ergo 1 ton = 14.3 m³. According to Traveller book 3 rules IIRC, a 100 m³ bay is 7 tons, whether it's filled with feathers or lead bricks, and it's confusing as hell.

Realistically, payload capacity is rated in cubic meters volume, as well as the dimensions of containers that can fit through the bay doors.

As far as metric tonnage, a vessel will have a maximum takeoff weight MTOW; the maximum weight she can lift at 1G (100 tons mass @ 0.5G only "weighs" 50 tons). The vessels will also have a maximum safe landing weight lest you smash fragile landing gear, blow out tires or overshoot the end of the runway.

With really heavy stuff (metal, ores, liquid cargo), it's possible to exceed the ship's MTOW with the bay half full. Lightweight cargo (polystyrene pellets) can fill the bay to the ceiling long before the ship's MTOW is reached. It depends on the cargo.
 
I agree and understand but all you have to work with when constructinga ship by the new rules, or using an existing premade ship for that matter, is "tons" as in the Anjou Freighter has 1712 tons of cargo space. If Traveller still adheres to the 14.3 rule then thats 24,481m3
But as you say its completely dependent on the nature of the cargo...but there has to be a constant, just to draw up your deck plan. The new rules dont mention ship size factors either - just a HULL, well in tons.

Similarly the freighter I just designed uses 100ton exchangeable modules... anyone hazard a guess how big they would be?
 
I agree and understand but all you have to work with when constructinga ship by the new rules, or using an existing premade ship for that matter, is "tons" as in the Anjou Freighter has 1712 tons of cargo space. If Traveller still adheres to the 14.3 rule then thats 24,481m3
Okay, Anjou. I forgot aabout vessels operating in weightlessness. There are no weight or mass constraints. Whatever you can cram into 1,712 "tons" of space. The cargo mass will affect the ship's acceleration and warp performance.


But as you say its completely dependent on the nature of the cargo...but there has to be a constant, just to draw up your deck plan. The new rules dont mention ship size factors either - just a HULL, well in tons.

Similarly the freighter I just designed uses 100ton exchangeable modules... anyone hazard a guess how big they would be?
A standard 40 foot conex (intermodal shipping container) has 64 m³ of interior volume, 4.47 Traveller "tons". A 40-foot conex is quite large, so 100-ton module would be huge.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ton

[Though its wikipedia, so it makes mention of weight instead of the more proper, mass - so 'also be used as a measure of energy' is a bit redundant and incorrect, eh! :rolleyes:]

Classic Traveller was very explicit about how this worked (At least in the Second Edition). This didn't keep people from being confused anymore than they are confused in RL about seagoing vessel tonnage!

In Classic Traveller, starship design is based on 'mass displacement' tons (dTons), which is strictly a volume measurement. It is described in LBB1 (reprint edition) as being 'as a rough guide, one ton equals 14 cubic meters' (the volume of one ton of liquid hydrogen)'. For deck planning purposes, in Classic Traveller, this is typically represented using 2 grid squares assumed to represent 3 meter height, as recommended in LBB5. The volume of two 1.5 meter squares, 3 meters high, being 13.5 cubic meters, or 'approximately 14 cubic meters'. 'Finally, a leeway of plus or minus 10% to 20% should be allowed'.

Re: 2300AD - Your Edition May Vary!

In the RW, the amount of mass that volume could hold is dependent on the structural and operating characteristics of the holding object - which, in turn, would depend on acceleration experienced. I.e. weight - which is a measure of acceleration. Remember, acceleration is a vector measurement. I.e. any gravity is a directional application of force. Which, in turn, must be netted with any additional acceleration. Further, except in limited cases, acceleration is constantly changing (such as when changing distance from center of mass).

An accelerating spaceship, notably operating in gravity wells, would therefore have a very wide range of operational mass tonnage capacities with regards to actual safe load. Even in 'weightlessness' there is still (inertial) mass to consider if the ship is accelerating. In a 'hard science' setting, the useful mass for say cargo, would be explicitly spec'd with given gravity/acceleration limits. (And even more realistically, mass per unit area limits... the pressure footprint of a tank may be much different than that of a similar mass semi.)

However, its volume would generally be invariant - i.e. not change (ignoring relativistic effects!). ;)

Since cargo mass would vary by design and performance characteristics, if the designers didn't spec one (and assuming there is no way to derive from movement rules, such as fuel equations) then pick the density of some RW object and derive mass tons from mass displacement. (Ex: mass of a design (displacement) volume of a specific specie of aluminum. Thus, heavy (steel) equipment would require more cargo 'tonnage' than say loads of wood.)
 
BytePro: English Traditional Measures are sll eeight, not mass. Metric are all mass.

But, in one Gee, the difference is academic.
 
Ok, so a 14M3 Ton might be something along the line of a cube a little over 2.4 meters to the side.

My 100 displaced ton cargo modules (about 1400 cubic meters) could be configured to any size that worked out to that volume. 10mx10mx14m for example.

The whole ship for that matter, at 800 displaced tons (11,200 cubic meters) could be given dimensions in the same manner.
 
BytePro: English Traditional Measures are sll eeight, not mass. Metric are all mass.

But, in one Gee, the difference is academic.
Yep, (assuming you meant to type 'still weight' ;)) - hence the irony of the Wikipedia 'also..measure of energy' bit. Weight when considered over a distance also being a measure of energy for purposes of work.

Noting that the difference is only academic 'in one Gee' if there is no additional net acceleration.

rgrove0172 said:
Ok, so a 14M3 Ton might be something along the line of a cube a little over 2.4 meters to the side.

My 100 displaced ton cargo modules (about 1400 cubic meters) could be configured to any size that worked out to that volume. 10mx10mx14m for example.

The whole ship for that matter, at 800 displaced tons (11,200 cubic meters) could be given dimensions in the same manner.
Yep!

I would caveat that I'm coming from Classic Traveller, but the newest 2300AD version uses such displacement tons as far as I know. Your title indicates 2320 version - presuming the PDF by Collins - so likely the same (but you could also check with the author - I think he is on here and over at Mongoose forums).
 
Nope, wasnt even aware of 2320 until recently. Originally a classic 2300 fan but switching over to Traveller for the benefit of new players.
 
The new Mongoose published version?

(That one uses MgT conventions - so your calcs would be correct, AFAIK...)
 
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