Obtaining a ship
- Thread starter rancke
- Start date
Thank you.
So...
* There's no down payment on the ship? (At least not if the PCs don't have any ship shares). Does that make the morgage rate bigger or smaller than a traditional (CT) mortgage? Every other time I try to figure it out, I arrive at the opposite conclusion.
* No matter how dilapidated the ship, the maximum discount possible is 10% of new price?
* What prevents the PCs from inspecting the prospective purchase, note that the maintenance costs are 200%, the cargo bay is tainted by chemicals, and repairs are subject to a DM of -1, and refuse to accept the deal? (Note: I don't believe in meta-game railroading ("Once I've rolled the dice you HAVE to accept the deal!" "No we don't. Only a fool signs anything without inspecting the ship first and none of our characters are fools.")).
Hans
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Thank you.
* There's no down payment on the ship? (At least not if the PCs don't have any ship shares). Does that make the morgage rate bigger or smaller than a traditional (CT) mortgage? Every other time I try to figure it out, I arrive at the opposite conclusion.
* No matter how dilapidated the ship, the maximum discount possible is 10% of new price?
* What prevents the PCs from inspecting the prospective purchase, note that the maintenance costs are 200%, the cargo bay is tainted by chemicals, and repairs a subject to a DM of -1, and refuse to accept the deal? (Note: I don't believe in meta-game railroading ("Once I've rolled the dice you HAVE to accept the deal!" "No we don't. Only a fool signs anything without inspecting the ship first and none of our characters are fools.").
Hans
1) A ship share is actual money put down on the ship. It would be the "deposit". It reduces the total price. If you have no shares, then the total price is the total price (/240 for the mortgage). If you have no ship shares, then yeah, likely a deposit is required... no idea what that might be but 20% is likely a good number unless interest was higher.
2) I think Scoundrels has some modifiers for crappy ships. But otherwise, you'll have to come up with them on your own. Definitely something that is missing in the MRB.
CosmicGamer
SOC-14 1K
No reason it can't be so in your game or others, so I'm not putting down your way of doing things but... as per the rules:
andCore Rules page 36 said:
1% of a Free Trader is a lot smaller "actual money" value than 1% of a Fat Trader. And I can't find it real quick, but I think somewhere it specifically says there is no cash value for ship shares.
Maybe you overlooked the half page section on page 136 of the core rules. I can certainly see why with the way the core rule book has info for a similar topic pop up in different places.
This is actually at the end of the Common Spacecraft Light Fighter description.
CosmicGamer
SOC-14 1K
Absolutely nothing. Not sure why you think this would be a problem.
CosmicGamer
SOC-14 1K
Interesting fact but we are well beyond play test discussion unless you have a time machine
I can't see myself or any of the players I have known in 37 years of roleplaying accept a deal like that (An old, severely dilapidated ship for 90% of new price). So the problem would be to let the PCs have a ship at all (under the MgT RAW, that is; it's not a problem I couldn't fix in a jiffy with house rules).
Hans
CosmicGamer
SOC-14 1K
I'm right there with you on that. They took one portion of the rules from what I guess is CT without updating it for the Mongoose ship share changes and in another place in the book is another blurb from a previous version with some changes, and in another place.....* There's no down payment on the ship? (At least not if the PCs don't have any ship shares). Does that make the morgage rate bigger or smaller than a traditional (CT) mortgage? Every other time I try to figure it out, I arrive at the opposite conclusion.
Not my understanding. Bonus ship shares from page 136 are just one portion of a discount.
My guess is that the 10 bonus ship share limit rule mechanic on page 36 is to keep people from rolling and rolling until they get a ship that is 50, 70, 90% discounted!!! Good idea to put some limit on it. The "we have to take the job to make the payments" motivator is still one of the main hooks the GM has to get players to send their characters down the path he has for them. No matter how real or unreal this is, I understand it as a game mechanic.
I'm not sure where this "old, severely dilapidated ship" is coming from.
NOWARE does it suggest to keep rolling for additional ship issues once you've reached the bonus limit or to keep any rolls that take you over 10. For fun, I guess you could say the ship is 250 years old and keep rolling. I wouldn't even have to inspect the ship to know that 10% off is a bad deal!
Page 136 says "gain 1d6 ship shares per 10 years of wear". This may not always come out to exactly 10. If after 30 years the ship share bonus is 9 and the next roll to make the ship 40 years old makes it 12 do you keep the age and the ship issues but reduce the bonus to 10 ship shares? That's a player/GM interpretation/decision not a rule. You could just as easily say I guess this ship that is available is 30 years old and has a 9 ship share bonus discount because I can't go over 10.
Perhaps an assumption or GM decision that a ship is a certain age before starting to roll on the table is the issue instead of letting the rolls determine the ships age and condition?
The whole ship age and bonus ship shares section is optional. Maybe the players want a brand new ship. Who decides what ships are available - the GM not the book. Nothing in the book about how many ships and what condition they are in. Just an option for possible problems if the players want additional discounts (up to 10 ship shares worth) - and still nothing that says they have to take that ship.
The 10 bonus ship shares limit is only a bonus ship share limit and not a limit to a discount on a ship. It only limits ship share bonus discounts from page 136. Anything else is still possible for the GM to do as they wish.
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CosmicGamer
SOC-14 1K
page 36
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Is there any provision for obtaining a ship via government auction of seized assets, such as a ship seized for smuggling or non-payment of docking fees, or seized and put up for auction for non-payment of debt? Or a ship surplus to government needs or overage and being sold to finance the cost of building its replacement?
Interesting fact but we are well beyond play test discussion unless you have a time machine
A. the rules were written with that as the baseline.
B. For many people, knowing that that was the standard in playtest, it's plenty of grounds for houseruling back to that mode. (It certainly makes it simpler to calculate.)
CosmicGamer
SOC-14 1K
It does help explain something like
since with ship shares as written in the book you just get a % discount and if the ship is small or large makes no difference.
Although I stand corrected as to actual "cash," the reduction in price always constituted the deposit in my mind. Given that it buys off a portion of the price I think it fits. You just can't trade them in for credits.
I quite like the idea of the Firefly type scenario where you get an old badly damaged ship and have to use your ship shares to make it fly and have used it in the past, (pre Firefly oddly), but I think you'd be only paying 10% of the value of the ship tops.
Wow 37 years for me as well, or very close to it.
Regards
David
* There's no down payment on the ship? (At least not if the PCs don't have any ship shares). Does that make the morgage rate bigger or smaller than a traditional (CT) mortgage? Every other time I try to figure it out, I arrive at the opposite conclusion.
None is told about in MgT, AFAIK. My guess is that they assumed every party will have ship's shares.
May I ask where this this 10% maximum come from? Idon't doubt thre is, just I cannot find it.
In page 136 of th core book there are rules for adquiring an old ship, each decade old gives you 1d6 shares to buy it, but I don't see a maximum on them...
And by the way, just 1-6% discout per decade seems me quite low a discount for the ship. A new car sold as second hand (what's called Km0 car) have quite larger discounts, and they are brand new or nearly so...
Page 36: "Characters can also get extra ship shares by taking an older and more damaged ship, to a maximum of 10 bonus ship shares." (Emphasis mine).
Me too. There's an answer in a Q&A session in one of the TDs that says that the value of a 40 year old ship is 20 or 25% (I forget which). I have a vague notion of some other reference to the same effect, but I may be misremembering.
In any case I think the value of a ship should depend on its condition, not how old it is1. Some of the results of the table on p. 136 should increase the cost of the ship. Apparently you can maintain a ship so well that it becomes cheaper to maintain than when it was spanking new.
1 Though the seller may well attempt to conceal some of the defects.
Hans
Having been looking at commercial fishing vessels (Because that's the best comparable data at present)...
... a 10 year old ship in good condition sells currently for 90% of new built, but note that the currency has also devalued and is only worth about 80% as much, so 0.9*0.8 = 0.7... so a 30% devaluation in real value in 10 years.
A 40 year old ship in good working order will sell for 30-40% of a brand new one of the same plan... simply because it's ready to roll.
Some of the commercial fishing vessels sailing right now out of Dutch, Homer and Kenai are from the late 1940's - and are in good repair - and change hands for about 30% of building the same plan over again. I've talked to a few owners... and the replacement cost to rebuild their vessels is 2-5 times the tax-assessed value.
