Operational and Strategic Fleet Combat

[Birdrock]

What sort of things properly fit into an operational combat system for Traveller? And for strategy?

Assume we have sensor rules which model distance, target size, and technology levels. I.e. Consider how to use them and what we know about ships in the Imperium. Assume that ships are not necessarily impossible to hide. Assume sensors are not impossible to jam. Assume we can find ships based on their power plant, E-M, proximity (up close), abnormal gravitics, and of course weapons fire.

Don't assume that High Guard's combat rules necessarily require a particular rule. But it might suggest one. Assume that battleships are good investments for some missions, but not all.

You may assume that star systems are more or less accurate for our purposes, and that we can figure out a star system using current rules well enough.

You may also assumes that budgets are somehow made consistent with these rules. In this case especially you should think about rules flexibility in case your assumptions about interstellar traffic or build numbers are off by an order of magnitude.

So, this is conceptual, and not really leaning hard on starship design rules, beyond some initial assumptions.

These assumptions should be annoying enough to make us all think.

 

[Dragoner]

The composition, size, etc., of a navy will be in response to the threat(s) it faces; all operations and strategy will revolve around this. So what is really needed is a situation.

 

[mike wightman]

Movement rules.

This is where it gets tricky.

Strategic movement is jumping between systems.

Tactical movement has to represent squadrons/ships maneuvering within a system. This will require a varible timescale.

Then you have movement during an engagement.

Weapon ranges - more detail than short and long (Mayday helps here)

 

[The Oz]

I'd call movement within a star system "operational" and movement within weapons range "tactical."

And operational movement wouldn't be that bad. I think there's only two basic engagement scenarios: the high-speed crossing battle where the two fleets close on opposing vectors and fly through each other, and the meeting engagement where the two fleets more or less match vectors at whatever range they feel appropriate. The Intruder admiral makes his choice of engagement, the Native then makes his, and differences are resolved as Fleet Tactics skill rolls with modifiers for fleet maneuver drive ratings and crew quality (to reflect Navigation skill). If you want more detail than that, just set up a hexmap of the system and move ships using a large-scale version of Mayday.

When in weapons range you could use an more detailed system if you want (Power Projection:Fleet or see my post down in the Traveller Wargames section about my Traveller conversion for Starmada:Fleet Ops) or just use something like HG with setups for the two basic kinds of engagements. In a crossing engagement the fleets will get one or two shots with missiles at long range as they close, then one furious short-range exchange of beam fire as they interpenetrate, and then it's basically over as the fleets separate with a really big combined vector. In the matching-vectors engagement you've basically got the standard HG battle, with fleets slugging it out and dodging from missile range to beam range and back again.

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

most warships only carry 1 jumps worth of fuel. if they choose to operate at max range, then they must either

A) spend god knows how many hours refueling after arrival, which would cost them any suprise they might have had.

or

B) press on and try and take the system, without the fuel to jump out if things go wrong.

now, this is only true if they are jumping at max range. most of the rulesets let a ship only burn part of it's jump fuel for a shorter jump. I think that would be the norm, with the ships doing the whole mission on internal tanks alone. jumping max range leaves the attackers with either giving up suprise or attacking without a secure line or retreat.

so, while a most warships are J-4, I think most attacks would be luanched at targets only J-2 form thier staging points.


now, intel is important, as is devolved leadership. at best, any attacker if going to start his attack with data that is two weeks old, more than likey older. If it possible for a starship to stay in system for an extended period without being detected or caught, it might be possible for scouts, working in pairs, to have one jump out, one stay in system. when the attackers arrive in system, they can get a up to the minute update form the scout left in system.

On devolved leadership, indevidual ship captains and squadron leaders are going to have to use a lot of inititive and be issued very board orders. to draw on a much cited naval example, Nelson, pior to Trafalgar, took his fleet across the Adlantic, and back again, in persuit of the french fleet, and did so without exceeding the remit his orders gave him, nor did anyone feel he was taking liberties by doning so. traveller admirails, equally distant form higher commands, would need simmilar levels of leeway to proceed as they see fit.

 

[Matt123]

I think there's only two basic engagement scenarios: the high-speed crossing battle where the two fleets close on opposing vectors and fly through each other, and the meeting engagement where the two fleets more or less match vectors at whatever range they feel appropriate.

I would add a third, where a defensive fleet sits close to an important asset (Main or GG) and the intruder closes cautiously. The fixed point engagement. And arguably this would be the majority of fleet scale combats. Combat in deep space is generally the realm of pirates, prey & pirate chasers.

 

[The Oz]

I would add a third, where a defensive fleet sits close to an important asset (Main or GG) and the intruder closes cautiously. The fixed point engagement. And arguably this would be the majority of fleet scale combats. Combat in deep space is generally the realm of pirates, prey & pirate chasers.

I think this is just a variant of the "meeting engagement" since the Intruder is closing with a small (easily cancelled) closing vector. The real key to the "fixed point" type of engagement is that the Native cannot back away forever from a constantly closing Intruder without abandoning what he's trying to defend. If the "fixed point" has any firepower of its own that becomes very important.

Of course, if a Native is standing and defending a fixed point, then the Native has surrendered the initative and must accept whatever kind of battle the Intruder choses to offer.

 

[robject]

There is, I think, also a potential discovery phase, early on.

(0) What the two sides know about each other, with what degree of certainty. Often already decided. Feeds in from Strategy.

(1) Who arrives first. Often already decided.

(2) When the intruder arrives... part of how the intruder arrives.

For #2, I understand that jump flashes are hard/impossible to hide. So the intruder focuses on mitigation or suppression if possible, while the native focuses on detection and recognition. We also get to muse on how coordinated military jumps can be.


There's also how often elements from both side arrive after the initial phases.

 

[mike wightman]

Sounds like you want to include sensor rules here rob

I would just steal the black sphere rule from T2300 SC, modify them a bit for system level movement and use computer model difference as a detection DM.

So at the system level you know something is there but you have to recon it to find out more.

 

[rancke]

For #2, I understand that jump flashes are hard/impossible to hide. So the intruder focuses on mitigation or suppression if possible, while the native focuses on detection and recognition. We also get to muse on how coordinated military jumps can be.

Jump flashes are presumably just as hard to hide as any other flash of light. Detection would depend on someone looking in the right direction at the right time and spotting the flashes.


Hans

 

[whartung]

Jump flashes are presumably just as hard to hide as any other flash of light. Detection would depend on someone looking in the right direction at the right time and spotting the flashes.

Assuming that jump flashes are purely visible light vs a random electromagnetic burst or radiation.

From a mechanics perspective you can consider jump flashes as a ship "going active" for a turn, perhaps with a bonus DM. Then after they arrive, that active burst fades and normal detection rules apply.

 

[Birdrock]

I do not know what a jump flash is. A burst of EM radiation?

But there is something to think about ... How well can you cover the sky with sensors... This turns into a probability I suppose.

 

[Birdrock]

Something else that bothers me is the star system map. Well, it doesn't bother me but I wonder about it. Planets will orbit the primary, so shouldn't an operational map display worlds in their approximate places in orbit? And... What's the best way to do that?

I guess randomly. But still...

 

[pmbnss]

Distance from primary is determined by the orbit number per Scouts.

location in the orbit can be determined with d12 anad clock positions. Then form that point on you will need to determine orbital speed to determine how far it has moved over a strategic game.

Or you can simply worry about the distances between two planets: At closest, they will be Outer Orbit - Inner orbit apart, at maximum, Outer Orbit + Inner Orbit. Roll 2d6, on 2 worlds are at minimum distance, 12 at maximum distance, all other rolls somewhere in between, as detailed as your heart desires.

Once you start getting to the outer system worlds, Jump-0 becomes faster than burning toward the destination with M-Drives.

 

[warwizard]

There is a choice here to use reaction drives or reactionless drives for the operational movement inside the system, reactionless drives makes it much less critical in the planning of the operation.

The other engagement is the fuel sourse defense by lurkers deep in a gas giant, there you have a game of cat and mouse, which could be modeled as attritional combat, with the SDB firing at a ship that is scooping fuel, and the high guard's firing at the SDB (which may be very hard to locate and lock up due to being in the gas giant's atmosphere)

 

[pmbnss]

What sort of things properly fit into an operational combat system for Traveller? And for strategy?

Assume we have sensor rules which model distance, target size, and technology levels. I.e. Consider how to use them and what we know about ships in the Imperium. Assume that ships are not necessarily impossible to hide. Assume sensors are not impossible to jam. Assume we can find ships based on their power plant, E-M, proximity (up close), abnormal gravitics, and of course weapons fire.

Some things to consider.

Populated moons and minor worlds will have some sort of supply line. They will also have their own sensor platforms, their sophistication and depth based on TL and Starport (and perhaps population).

How does the Imperium regulate movement (if at all?). For example, jumping to a Gas Giant puts you into sensor and comm-challenge range fairly quickly, so patrol craft are not needed to investigate you as a bogey. But a jump into "deep space" far from sensor net means that it if the bogey doesn't respond to radio challenge within the expected timeframe (a few minutes to a few hours), you have to send someone out there to investigate. Do you send the Type T, or the full Batron?

IMTU, jump flashes are visible and detectible, out to several light hours, range being dependent on population size, starport type, TL, and location (all worlds are covered, usually). However, until you are within 3 LS, or until you've had enough time to train multiple passive telescopes on the bogey, you have little or no information beyond it exists, its velocity, its vector, and whether it is thrusting.

What about planetary landings? At what point (distance) can you launch grav vehicles (GCarriers, GravTanks, etc), drop troops, or small craft. How long does it take to reach the surface, etc. IMTU, GCarriers, GTanks, Drop Troops, and ortillery must be in "orbit", which I use 12,000 km as the standard (the distance 1G accel moves you in a 20-min Hugh Guard combat turn).

Is your TU a zero velocity jump universe - meaning the jumping ship has to come to a full stop (or close to it) before it jumps, or can the ship burn until its beyond the 100D limit and then jump? I've come to prefer the first one, myself

World size plays into a lot decisions as well. A ship jumping to the 100D of a Size 0-3 world will be within 1LS (IIRC) upon exit from jumpspace. Worlds up to Size 7 or so are within 3 LS, and larger worlds you have have to burn for a while before you are within weapons range. Large Gas Giants can take many, many hours to traverse the distance between their 100D limit and orbit.

IMTU Short range is 1LS, Long is 1LS - 3LS, and you cannot hit anything beyond 3 LS (you can, in sports competition, for example, but 3 LS is the reasonable outer limit for target solutions). For HG battles, the battle itself worries only about Long or Short range, but the distance between the battle and the planet is tracked, so eventually the battle is within range (or out of range if you are running) of planet-based weapons (and vice versa).

-Peter