If tantalum is so valuable, why would pirates not steal the tantalum drive cores from their hapless victims? I've seen a bunch of stuff about pirates grabbing cargo, but it seems the core would be worth more than a few cubic meters of lettuce, ore, machinery, anything the ship would be hauling.
pirate practices
- Thread starter jcrocker
- Start date
'Cuz if the drive's built up a charge, pulling it will mean the sudden discharge of the drive. Of course, if they grab the ship after its discharged its drive, but before its built up any additional charge, well, it's gravy time.
Leaving aside the discharge issue, there's also the amount of time (and expertise) it would likely take to dismount the drive and get it out of the ship, or take it apart to get at the drive core.
Colin
Leaving aside the discharge issue, there's also the amount of time (and expertise) it would likely take to dismount the drive and get it out of the ship, or take it apart to get at the drive core.
Colin
True, I'd forgotten the discharge - but for 'dissassembly time', wouldn't pirates be likely to place a few charges and blow the core free?
Even with a discharge - boarding team places the demo charges, welds access to the engine room shut, moves off to a safe distance, blows the charges. The radiation pulse takes care of the 'witness' problem for you, they cut the hatch and move along with the booty.
[Sorry if this seems excessively bloody, just saw the 'Firefly' episodes with the Reavers & started planning mischief for the player group...
]
If the core's inaccessable, fine - it's just always struck me as odd that these ships fly around with these incredibly expensive parts, built from an element that nations colonize the stars to obtain, and when the pirates strike they grab the oranges in the cargo hold instead.
Even with a discharge - boarding team places the demo charges, welds access to the engine room shut, moves off to a safe distance, blows the charges. The radiation pulse takes care of the 'witness' problem for you, they cut the hatch and move along with the booty.
[Sorry if this seems excessively bloody, just saw the 'Firefly' episodes with the Reavers & started planning mischief for the player group...
]If the core's inaccessable, fine - it's just always struck me as odd that these ships fly around with these incredibly expensive parts, built from an element that nations colonize the stars to obtain, and when the pirates strike they grab the oranges in the cargo hold instead.
For 2320, I have the drive core as being two counter-rotating rotors in a vacuum chmaber, suspended in a magnetic feield, and spinning at about 100,000 rpm. If you blow the drive without powering down the core, it pretty much vaporizes from the kinetic energy alone. If you power the core down with discharging it, the Tantalum isotope decays into Hafnium, and is largely worthless. It's that decay that releases all the radiation.
Of course, they could attach a power module to the core to keep it spinning, and remove the entire drive from the target vessel. Just keep in mind that it retains its charge, so if the target ship has gone 5.6 ly, gets grabbed by pirates, and the pirates go 2.2 ly without discharging...
Colin
Of course, they could attach a power module to the core to keep it spinning, and remove the entire drive from the target vessel. Just keep in mind that it retains its charge, so if the target ship has gone 5.6 ly, gets grabbed by pirates, and the pirates go 2.2 ly without discharging...
Colin
What these syndicates would do is shadow a merchant vessel, wait until it's discharged its drives in one of the uninhabited systems, *then* grab it. It would often be easier to just grab the entire ship, though. Maybe some of these syndicates have old Metal-class freighters, and simply grapple and tow the target vessel, spacing the crew in deep space. (Said spaced crew would wind up being many small parts trailing out for several thousand kilometers behind a stutterwarping vessel...)
Colin
Colin
The other obvious money making mechanism is extortion. In fact the word tariff is a reference to the Pirates of Tarifa (near Gibraltar) who ran a protection racket on ships transiting the striaghts.
The other option is simply boarding a taking the victim. This is difficult, and is easiest to accomplish not by a "naval" attack but by having well armed "passengers" come aboard.
Finally, generally a ship will be more valuable than its cargo (a typical small merchant is 5-10 MLv, 800 tons of cargo is worth maybe a few million, unless it's expensive stuff, in which case it is likely to be escorted).
The other option is simply boarding a taking the victim. This is difficult, and is easiest to accomplish not by a "naval" attack but by having well armed "passengers" come aboard.
Finally, generally a ship will be more valuable than its cargo (a typical small merchant is 5-10 MLv, 800 tons of cargo is worth maybe a few million, unless it's expensive stuff, in which case it is likely to be escorted).
Lord Iron Wolf
SOC-12
How common are starships? My impression is very rare--even less than Traveller. I cannot see a trade in pirated goods happening since I cannot see where a pirate would get a ship to begin with.
The only thing I could see is a letter of marque issued to an armed merchant from a recent war (franco-german???) that had decided to go freebooter and had eluded national navies. Interesting but if it isn't a current navy ship, its chances of survival are pretty slim. Any ship caught would serve as an example to anyone who decided to try piracy themselves.
Lord Iron Wolf
The only thing I could see is a letter of marque issued to an armed merchant from a recent war (franco-german???) that had decided to go freebooter and had eluded national navies. Interesting but if it isn't a current navy ship, its chances of survival are pretty slim. Any ship caught would serve as an example to anyone who decided to try piracy themselves.
Lord Iron Wolf
Erik Boielle
SOC-12
+++++How common are starships? My impression is very rare--even less than Traveller. I cannot see a trade in pirated goods happening since I cannot see where a pirate would get a ship to begin with.
The only thing I could see is a letter of marque issued to an armed merchant from a recent war (franco-german???) that had decided to go freebooter and had eluded national navies. Interesting but if it isn't a current navy ship, its chances of survival are pretty slim. Any ship caught would serve as an example to anyone who decided to try piracy themselves.+++++
The point of any setting is to provide an excuse for pirates (and to a lesser extent ninjas).
Hence if the setting doesn't allow pirates, it is Wrong and must be Changed. When pondering setting elements, always one must ask oneself 'does this enable piracy' and if it doesn't, it must be cut.
Always bear this in mind.
--
I think combinations of corruption, incompetence, short sighted greed and unhealthy rivalrys should cover most aspects.
Anyway, some thoughts -
The factionalised nature of the 2300 allows you to piss off one group and hide in another.
Also, Britain secured its location by controlling the seas around its island, and then, safe from attack it set about pirating everything that moved (well, kinda, sorta, ish).
A colony could do the same - maintain enough of a fleet to discourage invasion, and then pick on a smaller spacefairing power, or one engaged elsewhere, basically leaving them without comeback.
--
Is it worth mentioning that Paul Allen of microsoft fame owns a yacht called Octopus that cost something like 200 million USD?
And hes got two more in the top 100 yachts list?
And these things cost about 10% of the purchase price per annum to maintain?
http://www.powerandmotoryacht.com/february04/OCTOPUSinBonaire1.jpg
Roman Abramovich owns number 6 in the list* (and two others), in addition to his $100 million converted 767 and the $450 million hes spent on chealsea football club.
Reckon he'd fund a pirate ship if he had the chance?
And it wasn't unheard of for commanders to purchase stuff for their units in the past?
*
http://www.luacheia.com/misc_images/abramovitch2/abramovitch_boats.html
--
Its is worth noting that when pirates drew the attention of the mighty Royal Navy they tended not to last long, but then the wild west only took about thirty years as well.
And so did the golden age of piracy.
2320 might see just such an age, with vast quantities of spaceships around, major powers fleets exhausted and on a short leash (so they won't be out of position for an assault on Earth) and the time just right for movements to launch attacks on coutries tired of fighting.
The only thing I could see is a letter of marque issued to an armed merchant from a recent war (franco-german???) that had decided to go freebooter and had eluded national navies. Interesting but if it isn't a current navy ship, its chances of survival are pretty slim. Any ship caught would serve as an example to anyone who decided to try piracy themselves.+++++
The point of any setting is to provide an excuse for pirates (and to a lesser extent ninjas).
Hence if the setting doesn't allow pirates, it is Wrong and must be Changed. When pondering setting elements, always one must ask oneself 'does this enable piracy' and if it doesn't, it must be cut.
Always bear this in mind.
--
I think combinations of corruption, incompetence, short sighted greed and unhealthy rivalrys should cover most aspects.
Anyway, some thoughts -
The factionalised nature of the 2300 allows you to piss off one group and hide in another.
Also, Britain secured its location by controlling the seas around its island, and then, safe from attack it set about pirating everything that moved (well, kinda, sorta, ish).
A colony could do the same - maintain enough of a fleet to discourage invasion, and then pick on a smaller spacefairing power, or one engaged elsewhere, basically leaving them without comeback.
--
Is it worth mentioning that Paul Allen of microsoft fame owns a yacht called Octopus that cost something like 200 million USD?
And hes got two more in the top 100 yachts list?
And these things cost about 10% of the purchase price per annum to maintain?
http://www.powerandmotoryacht.com/february04/OCTOPUSinBonaire1.jpg
Roman Abramovich owns number 6 in the list* (and two others), in addition to his $100 million converted 767 and the $450 million hes spent on chealsea football club.
Reckon he'd fund a pirate ship if he had the chance?
And it wasn't unheard of for commanders to purchase stuff for their units in the past?
*
http://www.luacheia.com/misc_images/abramovitch2/abramovitch_boats.html
--
Its is worth noting that when pirates drew the attention of the mighty Royal Navy they tended not to last long, but then the wild west only took about thirty years as well.
And so did the golden age of piracy.
2320 might see just such an age, with vast quantities of spaceships around, major powers fleets exhausted and on a short leash (so they won't be out of position for an assault on Earth) and the time just right for movements to launch attacks on coutries tired of fighting.
If starships are infact rare then I'd expect this would make piracy even more likely. Lack of system defense ships? lack of patrol ships or squadrons moving from system to system?
Lack of regular trader ships bringing supplies or just normal trade to colonies, colonies that may not really care where XX dohickey came from as long as they can get a crate of them. Plus 2300 had/has different regional control zones; the French arm the Chinese arm the American/Australian area (I'm less familiar with this game) As Erik suggests pirates can base themselves in one area and sell their plunder/repair their ships, in another area. Traveller in all it's forms has had governments that turn a blind eye to piracy due to any number of reasons kickbacks, local protection, letters of marque (a semi-legitimate reserve fleet to the local govt) etc etc.
The way I see it, it comes down to a personal choice as the one who runs the game. Either you want pirates in your game, in which case they can be put into just about any setting somehow, or you don't want pirates in your game.
Lack of regular trader ships bringing supplies or just normal trade to colonies, colonies that may not really care where XX dohickey came from as long as they can get a crate of them. Plus 2300 had/has different regional control zones; the French arm the Chinese arm the American/Australian area (I'm less familiar with this game) As Erik suggests pirates can base themselves in one area and sell their plunder/repair their ships, in another area. Traveller in all it's forms has had governments that turn a blind eye to piracy due to any number of reasons kickbacks, local protection, letters of marque (a semi-legitimate reserve fleet to the local govt) etc etc.
The way I see it, it comes down to a personal choice as the one who runs the game. Either you want pirates in your game, in which case they can be put into just about any setting somehow, or you don't want pirates in your game.
The 2300 boxed set describes starships as rare. PC's generally won't own one.
The only canonical references are Nyotekundu SB (about 12 pass though the system every day), and the fact that 19 ships are insystem at Hochbaden during the riots (CA).
Nyotekundu lies on the only route from Earth to the French Arm. Depending on assumptions this implies numbers in the low thousands.
GDW used the 10% rule in 1889, and it roughly fits. The killer for trade is the cost of lifting goods from the surface. It adds 5-10,000 USD per ton shipped.
Pirates probably owe their existance to various wars. In 2k3, various nations sponsored privateers, and I'd imagine a lot went rogue afterwards.
Bryn
The only canonical references are Nyotekundu SB (about 12 pass though the system every day), and the fact that 19 ships are insystem at Hochbaden during the riots (CA).
Nyotekundu lies on the only route from Earth to the French Arm. Depending on assumptions this implies numbers in the low thousands.
GDW used the 10% rule in 1889, and it roughly fits. The killer for trade is the cost of lifting goods from the surface. It adds 5-10,000 USD per ton shipped.
Pirates probably owe their existance to various wars. In 2k3, various nations sponsored privateers, and I'd imagine a lot went rogue afterwards.
Bryn
Which is roughly 4380 per year up and down that part of the French Arm, not counting anything exclusively on the outer Arm and/or transiting between Joi and Aurore or places inbetween[probably a minority]. And not counting the other two Arms.
Say 5000 'voyages' a year on the French Arm, the ships can't be that rare with the travel time involved.
Of course, then we get into hair-splitting: how many of those '12 per day' are merchant, how many navy? Is that 12 per day a representative sample? And other hand-wavings...
It says merchant, military, and passenger ships.
About 12 a day is stated as the average, of which 4 are transiting downarm, 4 transiting to Earth, and 4 going from Earth-Nyotekundu and back.
It also mentions that getting a stopping ticket (i.e. pulling in at every station, rather than straight to the destination) is 10% cheaper.
See pages 8-9 of the NyoSB; "Getting to Nyotekundu"
This implies most ships are short haulers, going from one system to a nearby one, and only 1/3rd are larger long haulers.
Bryn
About 12 a day is stated as the average, of which 4 are transiting downarm, 4 transiting to Earth, and 4 going from Earth-Nyotekundu and back.
It also mentions that getting a stopping ticket (i.e. pulling in at every station, rather than straight to the destination) is 10% cheaper.
See pages 8-9 of the NyoSB; "Getting to Nyotekundu"
This implies most ships are short haulers, going from one system to a nearby one, and only 1/3rd are larger long haulers.
Bryn
Lets take 4500 transits a year... and assume 1 transit per ship per two weeks... with mst of the ships actually being faster than this, this is a very CAUTIOUS hedge towards more ships... that's roughly 25 transits per year per ship. Or only about 180 ships working the arm.
Not really a lot. If we compare, the numbers in GTFT would make for considerably more to meet maximum stable trade flow.... (Not that I agree with GTFT... but it is a useful benchmark for comparisons with "Heavy trade-flow traveller". I'm a "Light trade-flow" kind of guy. I think Blue et all got the amount of trade off by two or three orders of magnitude...)
Not really a lot. If we compare, the numbers in GTFT would make for considerably more to meet maximum stable trade flow.... (Not that I agree with GTFT... but it is a useful benchmark for comparisons with "Heavy trade-flow traveller". I'm a "Light trade-flow" kind of guy. I think Blue et all got the amount of trade off by two or three orders of magnitude...)
Now, this is approx 43% of trade, using the gravity model spreadsheet and sqrt population as a model.
Once distance is a factor, 74% of journies should pass through Nyotekundu, and the average journey is 45 light years.
Therefore this implies approximately 1,500 merchant and passenger ships.
However, reading has lead me to believe that market should be in direct proportion to population, this would increase the number of merchants.
The resources estimates (3,300 starships and 6,700 insystemers) does seem pretty okay.
Bryn
Once distance is a factor, 74% of journies should pass through Nyotekundu, and the average journey is 45 light years.
Therefore this implies approximately 1,500 merchant and passenger ships.
However, reading has lead me to believe that market should be in direct proportion to population, this would increase the number of merchants.
The resources estimates (3,300 starships and 6,700 insystemers) does seem pretty okay.
Bryn
