Players and rules system issues

[Olschoolgamer]

This situation is unusual for me, but I think it may be more common in an older game like CT than in other games. This post is rather long but I wanted to include all the details so you don't think that I am just being paranoid. As I posted previously I am in a group that I know can handle the details of Traveller and the founder of this group is a veteran gamer who has played most incarnations of the game. Unfortunately he has become quite the Exalted fan boy. When we discussed game rotation, we are currently playing WFRP, I stated that I would run a hard sci fi game, and also stated that it would be Traveller. There was no grumbling from this, everyone was intrigued, except WOD fan boy who stated that he had worked out a stripped down version of the Exalted rules for sci fi. I played Exalted and thought the system was great, but this is not what I wanted for my game so I told him I would not use his system because then it wouldn't be Traveller. He looked at me like I had just said his children were ugly. Nothing was said for a while but then later when we were war gaming, I am in an rpg group and miniature gaming group, both he founded. I stated that I had worked out a combat mod for CT using Striker. He said "You can't change the rules because you haven't even looked at my WOD rules." So to be diplomatic I took the rules home. They were fairly simple and worked. Exalted has a very realistic initiative system that uses "ticks" to track when people act. But from that point he has been on the verge of shoving his pet rules down my throat. He is constantly making suggestions on how I can mod CT to his rules. I also got a very zealous explanation of how the initiative system works and how it will change RPGs for ever. The last conversation on the subject was close to an argument when I stated I "may" use his rules with modifications. He stated that the mods I was proposing would completely change his pet system and if I did this I should just use a different system, not original CT or BRP which I love, but other more modern systems. In the end everything said and done, this situation has sucked all the joy out of running a CT campaign. Also, my overall attitude for the group he founded and invited me into has been tainted. I have know this guy for sometime and been the best of friends but this insistence has really put a damper on my RPGing. Has anyone had an issue like this were you want to use one system and another player is such a fan boy that they keeping pushing the virtues of there pet system almost to the point of driving you from the group?

 

[Olschoolgamer]

This situation is unusual for me, but I think it may be more common in an older game like CT than in other games. This post is rather long but I wanted to include all the details so you don't think that I am just being paranoid. As I posted previously I am in a group that I know can handle the details of Traveller and the founder of this group is a veteran gamer who has played most incarnations of the game. Unfortunately he has become quite the Exalted fan boy. When we discussed game rotation, we are currently playing WFRP, I stated that I would run a hard sci fi game, and also stated that it would be Traveller. There was no grumbling from this, everyone was intrigued, except WOD fan boy who stated that he had worked out a stripped down version of the Exalted rules for sci fi. I played Exalted and thought the system was great, but this is not what I wanted for my game so I told him I would not use his system because then it wouldn't be Traveller. He looked at me like I had just said his children were ugly. Nothing was said for a while but then later when we were war gaming, I am in an rpg group and miniature gaming group, both he founded. I stated that I had worked out a combat mod for CT using Striker. He said "You can't change the rules because you haven't even looked at my WOD rules." So to be diplomatic I took the rules home. They were fairly simple and worked. Exalted has a very realistic initiative system that uses "ticks" to track when people act. But from that point he has been on the verge of shoving his pet rules down my throat. He is constantly making suggestions on how I can mod CT to his rules. I also got a very zealous explanation of how the initiative system works and how it will change RPGs for ever. The last conversation on the subject was close to an argument when I stated I "may" use his rules with modifications. He stated that the mods I was proposing would completely change his pet system and if I did this I should just use a different system, not original CT or BRP which I love, but other more modern systems. In the end everything said and done, this situation has sucked all the joy out of running a CT campaign. Also, my overall attitude for the group he founded and invited me into has been tainted. I have know this guy for sometime and been the best of friends but this insistence has really put a damper on my RPGing. Has anyone had an issue like this were you want to use one system and another player is such a fan boy that they keeping pushing the virtues of there pet system almost to the point of driving you from the group?

 

[Maladominus]

Sounds like....

His mind is made up. His WOD system uber alles. Better than everything. Second to none. He's not willing to play or give consideration to any other competing system.

Unfortunately, you will not be able to "convince" him. The harder you try, the more offended he will be, and eventually this will end up (predictably) into a small grudge between you and him if you both try to push your agendas on each other.

If you REALLY have aspirations and dreams of running a Traveller game independent of "HIS VISION" of how the game should be run, then you must look at doing so independent of HIM. You need to simply start your own Traveller gaming group, invite your other friends that you know will be receptive to your Traveller game, and simply don't invite HIM to your Traveller universe.

You are your own person. Don't be a slave to anyone elses prerogatives.

 

[Maladominus]

Sounds like....

His mind is made up. His WOD system uber alles. Better than everything. Second to none. He's not willing to play or give consideration to any other competing system.

Unfortunately, you will not be able to "convince" him. The harder you try, the more offended he will be, and eventually this will end up (predictably) into a small grudge between you and him if you both try to push your agendas on each other.

If you REALLY have aspirations and dreams of running a Traveller game independent of "HIS VISION" of how the game should be run, then you must look at doing so independent of HIM. You need to simply start your own Traveller gaming group, invite your other friends that you know will be receptive to your Traveller game, and simply don't invite HIM to your Traveller universe.

You are your own person. Don't be a slave to anyone elses prerogatives.

 

[RandyT0001]

Well, I think it's time to stand up for yourself. If you want to incorporate some Striker into some CT rules to play Traveller do so. Before the first game tell the group (including fan boy) that you've decided on a rule system that includes some house rules but don't tell them which rules they are. Don't be pushed into either just say those who want to play can show up and find out. If they don't want to play using the rule set selected then they are free to leave and do something else. Those who do want to play will be expected to 'play' the game and not distract from the game by interjecting irrevelant rule comments. It's supposed to be your game. If fan boy doesn't like it that you didn't use his rules then he can play something else or stay home. If he does start to play then begins to make comments during the game how Exalted, etc. would be better, easier (etc) you need to be firm and remind him to play and if he wont stop the distracting comments he can leave. If you let fan boy be such an influence as he appears to have been then he will end up trying to take control of your game to suit him. He can run whatever he wants to with whatever rules he chooses when it's his turn in the rotation. Stand up for yourself and your game.

EDIT: If he's really a friend he will respect your choices without reservation and play to enjoy the game. If not then he really wasn't much of a friend after all.

 

[RandyT0001]

Well, I think it's time to stand up for yourself. If you want to incorporate some Striker into some CT rules to play Traveller do so. Before the first game tell the group (including fan boy) that you've decided on a rule system that includes some house rules but don't tell them which rules they are. Don't be pushed into either just say those who want to play can show up and find out. If they don't want to play using the rule set selected then they are free to leave and do something else. Those who do want to play will be expected to 'play' the game and not distract from the game by interjecting irrevelant rule comments. It's supposed to be your game. If fan boy doesn't like it that you didn't use his rules then he can play something else or stay home. If he does start to play then begins to make comments during the game how Exalted, etc. would be better, easier (etc) you need to be firm and remind him to play and if he wont stop the distracting comments he can leave. If you let fan boy be such an influence as he appears to have been then he will end up trying to take control of your game to suit him. He can run whatever he wants to with whatever rules he chooses when it's his turn in the rotation. Stand up for yourself and your game.

EDIT: If he's really a friend he will respect your choices without reservation and play to enjoy the game. If not then he really wasn't much of a friend after all.

 

[atpollard]

Deep emotional arguments are almost never about the topic being argued. Step back and try to see what is really going on. Then take the appropriate action. No one here can really help you with that.

Good Luck.

 

[atpollard]

Deep emotional arguments are almost never about the topic being argued. Step back and try to see what is really going on. Then take the appropriate action. No one here can really help you with that.

Good Luck.

 

[Olschoolgamer]

All good comments. True I am going to have to stand up for my game, and if I was going to run say a post apocolyptic game I would probably use his system. When the subject of his system came up I thought "this is not going to end well". I appreciate the chance to vent and the advice given.

 

[Olschoolgamer]

All good comments. True I am going to have to stand up for my game, and if I was going to run say a post apocolyptic game I would probably use his system. When the subject of his system came up I thought "this is not going to end well". I appreciate the chance to vent and the advice given.

 

[flykiller]

well, you can take several approaches.

one, you can just be cool and say "ok" and run his system. it sounds like a great system, and hey, if it's modified for sci-fi, maybe you can wear it in and then present it here for our consideration. there are lots of people on the board who might take it up.

two, you can just say "hey, I'm ref of this game, this is what I'm comfortable with, welcome to it," and just play - if you're willing to aggravate him to do so.

which is more important to you?

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Or, you could throw it all out and play Firefly....

Ooooh, that wasn't helpful at all, was it?

Yeah, this will require prioritization. The problem with standing up is that the others may decide to stick with what they know (the current group/host), rather than tick off the "Founder". If you're a religious man, I would advise to spend some time in prayer as this is indeed sticky.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Or, you could throw it all out and play Firefly....

Ooooh, that wasn't helpful at all, was it?

Yeah, this will require prioritization. The problem with standing up is that the others may decide to stick with what they know (the current group/host), rather than tick off the "Founder". If you're a religious man, I would advise to spend some time in prayer as this is indeed sticky.

 

[Finarvyn]

In my campaign, whatever rules I decide to run are the ones we will use. There is no real debate on this issue. I try to be as fair as possible, but my players know that they may offer suggestions but whatever I decide is the way it will be.

I've even changed rules partway through a campaign. I was running a game of d20 Cthulhu and decided that I didn't like the way the flow of the game was occuring, so I announced one day that we were switching to another rules set (BtVS by Eden Studios) and the campaign seemed to play better. As a group we want to have fun, not argue about rules.

Just my two cents.

 

[Finarvyn]

In my campaign, whatever rules I decide to run are the ones we will use. There is no real debate on this issue. I try to be as fair as possible, but my players know that they may offer suggestions but whatever I decide is the way it will be.

I've even changed rules partway through a campaign. I was running a game of d20 Cthulhu and decided that I didn't like the way the flow of the game was occuring, so I announced one day that we were switching to another rules set (BtVS by Eden Studios) and the campaign seemed to play better. As a group we want to have fun, not argue about rules.

Just my two cents.

 

[lordmalachdrim]

I've had to deal with people like him in the past and the results I usually end up with are they get pissed and walk out (possibly with one or two others), but after that the game usually starts running much more smoothly. Also those that have stuck around and discovered alot of new game systems (mechanics) that they like better then the same old thing that they've done time and time again.

 

[lordmalachdrim]

I've had to deal with people like him in the past and the results I usually end up with are they get pissed and walk out (possibly with one or two others), but after that the game usually starts running much more smoothly. Also those that have stuck around and discovered alot of new game systems (mechanics) that they like better then the same old thing that they've done time and time again.

 

[Roger Calver]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
Or, you could throw it all out and play Firefly....

Ooooh, that wasn't helpful at all, was it?

NO, but he could always try Serenity the RPG instead

 

[Roger Calver]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
Or, you could throw it all out and play Firefly....

Ooooh, that wasn't helpful at all, was it?

NO, but he could always try Serenity the RPG instead

 

[Ptah]

I've seen the fan boy mentality in action with TSR products, but never with someones own system, which sounds like what he has here.

He's your friend so you know how best to approach him but I'd start with saying his system looks great (which it sounds like it does to you in many ways) but that you are in the mood for soemthing closer to Traveller, it may not be better but its what you'd like to try.

Also it might be a little odd to have the creator of a system as your player the first time you run the system. If you'd like to try his system I'd definitively mention that. Maybe he can run a post-apocalytic game.

It sounds to me he's invested a lot of effort and thought into this and would like to try it out. As you are his friend he may feel "betrayed" that you don't jump at the chance to run it. He may take your not wanting to run it as not liking it or not wanting to playing it.

Just my cheap message board psychology. I hope it has already turned out well for your group.