CT Only: Process for Goods on the Market

[Supplement Four]

I was wondering about the process of putting goods on the market at a starport. Let's say that I've got some Golden Suns, a type of apple/potato food that will be ready to ship off planet in three days. I've got 20 tons of the stuff.

I go to the starport and...what?

I get it listed on the "Board", where every ship with free cargo space can check to see about open shipments?

Is there a charge to get on the Board?

Regarding the Trader, Broker, Streetwise, and Admin skills: Is there another method than just getting listed on the Board?

Do individual Brokers run their own businesses so that there is no "Board". You list with a local Broker, and he tries to find a good ship for your transport?

How do you think it generally works?

Don't forget the influence of skills--the skills may hint a the process.



And, now, I open the floor to speculation and good old Traveler talk...

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Describe the starport.

 

[kilemall]

Well I'd say, are you speculating to sell at your port or sell at a destination port?


If the former, I'd tend to work it the same as a free trader landing and selling, just without any shipping cost.


However, assuming you are on an Ag planet producing your bounteous crop, I think the trade modifiers would go poorly for you since the whole planet is growing this stuff.


Best to then ship it elsewhere for a profit.


This is where you might consider the LBB7 'what's the market value likely to be' throw as kind of a futures price indication.


Otherwise, pay up to ship it to the planet with the best mods and speculate/sell there.


Keep in mind the potential diminishing returns of a crop vs. brokerage and shipping distance- could be tough to get your profit if any margin you might make is eaten up by the shipping fee. Speculation is economical for distance when you either control the costs by having a ship yourself or the base price is several times shipping. Cheap commodities end up having 'short legs' since the margin diminishes fast.

 

[whartung]

Describe the starport.

Gray. With posters.

 

[whartung]

I was wondering about the process of putting goods on the market at a starport. Let's say that I've got some Golden Suns, a type of apple/potato food that will be ready to ship off planet in three days. I've got 20 tons of the stuff.

I go to the starport and...what?

Obviously, there's all sorts of things that can happen, and different locales can do different things.

One guideline you can use in how to structure the process is thinking of how many points act as "suitable opportunities for graft". Points in the process that, can, perhaps, be made "more efficient" for special handling fee -- maybe. "Consult your law level for details!"

A big thing, specific to this case, is the agricultural inspection. If you were bringing in steel ingots, it would be one thing, but agriculture has all sorts of it's own issues.

Mean, nasty things tag along agricultural goods.

But, frankly, I think the Broker is the Go To guy for this kind of thing. He knows what to do with your cargo, he's a local point of contact for folks interested in such cargos. He can act as an "asynchronous interface" to the local market.

Land, dump the goods with him, he can pay you now, he can handle a consignment deal, etc.

In some places, the Broker could be an agent of the state, vs a private party.

But on the whole, the Broker is the meta common practice. "Something like a broker", perhaps with different names.

I would expect that if you are fresh to a starport, finding a broker would be something you might find in local conversation: talking in bars, talking at the starport, digging through the yellow pages. It would NOT, per se, be a "service" of the starport.

Once you find one, it's up to you whether you retain that relationship from trip to trip.

 

[Timerover51]

Obviously, there's all sorts of things that can happen, and different locales can do different things.

One guideline you can use in how to structure the process is thinking of how many points act as "suitable opportunities for graft". Points in the process that, can, perhaps, be made "more efficient" for special handling fee -- maybe. "Consult your law level for details!"

A big thing, specific to this case, is the agricultural inspection. If you were bringing in steel ingots, it would be one thing, but agriculture has all sorts of it's own issues.

Mean, nasty things tag along agricultural goods.

But, frankly, I think the Broker is the Go To guy for this kind of thing. He knows what to do with your cargo, he's a local point of contact for folks interested in such cargos. He can act as an "asynchronous interface" to the local market.

Land, dump the goods with him, he can pay you now, he can handle a consignment deal, etc.

In some places, the Broker could be an agent of the state, vs a private party.

But on the whole, the Broker is the meta common practice. "Something like a broker", perhaps with different names.

I would expect that if you are fresh to a starport, finding a broker would be something you might find in local conversation: talking in bars, talking at the starport, digging through the yellow pages. It would NOT, per se, be a "service" of the starport.

Once you find one, it's up to you whether you retain that relationship from trip to trip.

I think that, based on the quote, you misunderstand the question. He appears to be looking to SHIP the goods, not land and sell them. He wants to know how he goes about shipping them.

 

[mike wightman]

Simple, you pay 1000Cr per ton of cargo to the ship that will carry them to where you want them delivered, provided it is only one jump away.

There was an article in JTAS about it...

 

[GypsyComet]

We know from TTA that brokers are not obligatory, but do function as a "blind" interface between producers and ships. Smaller markets may not support a Broker, much less a community of them, while large world markets need them just to keep things moving. Some Brokers will be Corporate agents, others will be freelance.

My own interpretation of the Brokerage process (particularly as manifested in Mongoose 1, but also in other editions like CT) is that Brokers are *easy* to find. Cargo Brokers who were hard to find wouldn't last a month. The trick is finding one who has something for your size ship and destination.

One twist, particularly on Corporate worlds (Gov 1, and others), is that there may not be any "brokers" as such. Your contact may be the company Supercargo who *knows* that stuff falls through the cracks sometimes, and probably has a Warehouse of Shame that he will cheerfully empty with the help of a timely Free Trader, or has a stash of Executive Exemptions that need to go out off the Company records, or is just smuggling on his own. The PCs may never know the difference.

Those little E and D ports with local producers might also not have brokers. The Captains Notice Board by the Port office just has a schedule for the local "Farmer's Market". Go make your own deals.

Every world, and thus every port, can and should be a little different. Even in the face of Vilani/Imperial attempts to standardize.

 

[Supplement Four]

Clarification: What I'm trying to find out is what is the general process for Travellers finding cargo to haul.

Is the process as simple as getting listed on a Board (list, computer read-out, whatever) that everyone who asks has access to check for new cargoes?

Or, is the process more byzantine. Must you check with a broker, who then has a set of contacts--but maybe not privy to all shipments on the world?

Or, something different?

 

[GypsyComet]

In the context of a larger state that is not merely encouraging trade, but actively requiring it, the State's representatives on each world are not going to want to make trade difficult. If a State apparatus exists, it will be easy to engage from BOTH sides. If CT thought this was a tough process with costs at risk, the books would have said so. This IS the game that charges Cr100 for landing space.

Where the difficulties might arise is from the world government. Bureaucratic barriers to import and export will arise outside the port fence.

What we see in CT adventures and books is easy access to Brokers for visiting ships. Whether these are Imperial Brokers or an open World market is immaterial to the CT rules process. Goods come in. Goods go out. Prices are re-rolled periodically, and freight is almost boolean (either more than you can handle, or none at all).

Who are you dealing with? Immaterial. They are all "brokers".
How are you finding and contacting them? Variable in the role-playing details, but "it just happens" from a rules POV. Could be an actual pin board by the Class E gate, or a comm directory with a section for Brokerages who work through that Class A.

If you are trying to add a process where CT has none, you need to decide whether that is a RP process that adds NO rolls (aside from interpersonal stuff), or if you are going to impose Exit Visa on every attempt to fill the cargo bay. Or something in between.

 

[atpollard]

Gray. With posters.

:rofl:

 

[atpollard]

Clarification: What I'm trying to find out is what is the general process for Travellers finding cargo to haul.
Is the process as simple as getting listed on a Board (list, computer read-out, whatever) that everyone who asks has access to check for new cargoes?
Or, is the process more byzantine. Must you check with a broker, who then has a set of contacts--but maybe not privy to all shipments on the world?
Or, something different?

Consider the real world.
Farmer Arthur (I am not a farmer, but just pretending ) wants to sell his crop.

How could I let people know that I have a crop to sell?

• I could set up a roadside stand.
• I could advertise on the internet or a newspaper or a bulletin board.
• I could have a contract with a wholesaler to buy/resell my crop (broker).
• I could call the local Government Agriculture Agent who lists my crop on the Government database.

How could you (in your speculative starship) discover the information that I have a crop to sell?

• NO SKILL: You could locate my crop listed on a local bulletin board or newspaper.
• ADMIN: You could contact the local Government and find the listing for my crop.
• BROKER: You could hire a broker to search multiple sources and his personal contacts.
• COMPUTER: You could find my website and see that I have a crop ready.
• STREETWISE: You could meet a truck driver in a bar who tells you that he drives past a farm that has a crop that is almost ready for harvest. Or meet a cook who buys her produce directly from a Farm that has a roadside stand and a large crop ready for harvest (the farmer told her so when they were just talking).

 

[kilemall]

Clarification: What I'm trying to find out is what is the general process for Travellers finding cargo to haul.

Is the process as simple as getting listed on a Board (list, computer read-out, whatever) that everyone who asks has access to check for new cargoes?

Or, is the process more byzantine. Must you check with a broker, who then has a set of contacts--but maybe not privy to all shipments on the world?

Or, something different?

Well, I would say that 'it depends'.


Particularly if you are OTU or not.


My read of the Imperium is that while they let planets run their own affairs and likely outlaw/embargo certain goods to and from for whatever reason, there is also effectively an obligation to promote trade and travel.


So the freedom to 'do things their own way' I think stops at the point it impedes general commerce.


So I would expect OTU Imperial starports to have a relatively standardized process/legal/cost structure to list goods for interstellar sale or purchase.


Clearly it's not an Amazon come shopping click click buy thing in most cases since the Broker provides value. There may be dozens of sub-markets that cater to specialties like commodities, industrial equipment, vehicles, etc. and the broker knows his/her/its way around.


May also be that the broker is licensed and authorized by both the planet AND the Imperium to do business or smooth it over, thus helping crews avoid pitfalls in both interstellar and planetary commerce and contract law, thus the better prices (not just finding optimized buyer/seller or sales but actually making it cheaper for someone in the trade and passing on profits to the PC).


Now once you are outside a strong polity or a trade union type setup, I would expect..... mostly the same, but the motivations of the sophonts involved may lead to unusual or strange or larcenous activity that must be dealt with.


A classic example are the K'kree, who due to their vegetarianism, requires extreme dietary care must to even be able to do business with them. One must expect other customs or culture issues to arise with different conceptions of what trade is or how it is to be conducted.


And of course the higher the law level the more likely graft and corrupt officials with their hands out will be required to be dealt with.


Otherwise, I'd roll with the 'Rule of OZ'- most of the time some sort of commodity exchange/submarket as we think of it, but sometimes a religious ritual, Kafkamarket, AIs that taunt you during the whole process, exchange of marriage vows/arranged child marriages, cargo that is self-aware and sells itself. Whatever conveys that you are not in Kansas anymore.

 

[whartung]

This problem exists today. So, I just did a quick google and found: https://www.comcapfactoring.com/blog/how-to-get-high-paying-freight-loads/

It's an article for truckers who own a "trucking company". Now, for many, a "trucking company" is a guy, his dog, and his truck. So, this is germane to the Free Trader ethos as far as hauling cargo (vs speculating).

It talks (lightly) about brokers, "load boards", and making personal contacts.

The concepts in that short article are readily applicable to this problem I think.

 

[coliver988]

This problem exists today. So, I just did a quick google and found: https://www.comcapfactoring.com/blog/how-to-get-high-paying-freight-loads/

It's an article for truckers who own a "trucking company". Now, for many, a "trucking company" is a guy, his dog, and his truck. So, this is germane to the Free Trader ethos as far as hauling cargo (vs speculating).

It talks (lightly) about brokers, "load boards", and making personal contacts.

The concepts in that short article are readily applicable to this problem I think.

I liked it. Here's a Travellerized version of that: Google Doc - How To Find High-Paying Loads

 

[Supplement Four]

This problem exists today. So, I just did a quick google and found: https://www.comcapfactoring.com/blog/how-to-get-high-paying-freight-loads/

It's an article for truckers who own a "trucking company". Now, for many, a "trucking company" is a guy, his dog, and his truck. So, this is germane to the Free Trader ethos as far as hauling cargo (vs speculating).

It talks (lightly) about brokers, "load boards", and making personal contacts.

The concepts in that short article are readily applicable to this problem I think.

Nice catch.

 

[whartung]

I liked it. Here's a Travellerized version of that: Google Doc - How To Find High-Paying Loads

That's really good.

It would be nice if maybe you could sprinkle in skill suggestions for the different phases, but there's a lot of room for RP in this.

 

[coliver988]

That's really good.

It would be nice if maybe you could sprinkle in skill suggestions for the different phases, but there's a lot of room for RP in this.

Thanks - just paraphrasing what you started.

I was thinking it could be expanded to specific types of rolls, worlds within the Imperium and outside, how TL plays into it.

The steward part was from another thread here somewhere I think (it may have been in the do we need a cargo master thread). It expanded what a steward does in ways I thought were clever and made it a more useful skill than just putting chocolates on the pillows every night. Stewards are also the purser, informal broker, and general information gatherer. It seemed well within the bounds of early Traveller to have those "perks" for the steward skill.

If I have time, I'll see if I can make that document an "actionable" one. I'll re-read this thread and dig through the various Traveller versions I have access to on trading and see what else fits.

 

[Supplement Four]

What I'm getting is that, in CT, it's not always as easy as just going down to the starport with your goods and (possibly paying a fee) to get listed on the Board.

You got to meet with a broker to move your goods off world. He will list you on the Board. But, he also works with other brokers to find ships that aren't listed on the Board.

Why not list on the Board?

What I'm calling "the Board" is a general listing. You pay a fee, or maybe it is free, to have your shipment listed on a board for all to see. Something like:

14 tons, perishable, organic, delivered to Aramis starport by date X

Those interested could just contact the broker associated with that listing, or the ship's Captain direct, and make the cargo deal.



But, again, why would you not list on the Board?

Can brokers get you better deals?

Is the cost of listing on the Board high? So that there is encouragement to skip that fee and just go directly through a broker?

Otherwise, why have a broker?





How do skills affect cargo?

BOOK 1

Broker skill inflates seller price of speculative trade goods

Bribery skill inflates seller price of speculative trade goods

Admin skill inflates the seller price of speculative trade goods

Skills do not affect the outcome of Passengers and Cargo.


This suggests that cargo is easy and free. Probably, the Board is a service of the starport.

The Procedure is: You get listed on a Board with your goods, and a ship interesting in taking your goods to their destination contacts you.





BOOK 7

This book suggests a different procedure.

Admin skill can increase the number of Middle Passengers.

Carousing and Steward can increase the number of High Passengers.

Streetwise can increase the number of Low Passengers

Liaison can increase the size of minor cargo.

Bribery, Broker, and Trader still increase the Actual Value of speculative trade.



I read this as similar to the above, but allowing more fine detail. There is a Board, and maybe there is a fee (which is why minor cargoes may avoid it), but the majority of the trade and cargo business is on that board.

Then, the skills can be used as described above for extras. Minor cargo that hasn't made it to the board yet, for example.

"Yeah, I know of a few tons that are waiting to combine with a bigger lot--you could take that. And, I know of a group of tech specialists that need to go to your destination, too. You could ferry them as passengers. They haven't listed yet on the Board."

 

[atpollard]

What I'm getting is that, in CT, it's not always as easy as just going down to the starport with your goods and (possibly paying a fee) to get listed on the Board.

You got to meet with a broker to move your goods off world. He will list you on the Board. But, he also works with other brokers to find ships that aren't listed on the Board.

Why not list on the Board?

What I'm calling "the Board" is a general listing. You pay a fee, or maybe it is free, to have your shipment listed on a board for all to see. Something like:

14 tons, perishable, organic, delivered to Aramis starport by date X

Those interested could just contact the broker associated with that listing, or the ship's Captain direct, and make the cargo deal.



But, again, why would you not list on the Board?

Can brokers get you better deals?

Is the cost of listing on the Board high? So that there is encouragement to skip that fee and just go directly through a broker?

Otherwise, why have a broker?





How do skills affect cargo?

BOOK 1

Broker skill inflates seller price of speculative trade goods

Bribery skill inflates seller price of speculative trade goods

Admin skill inflates the seller price of speculative trade goods

Skills do not affect the outcome of Passengers and Cargo.


This suggests that cargo is easy and free. Probably, the Board is a service of the starport.

The Procedure is: You get listed on a Board with your goods, and a ship interesting in taking your goods to their destination contacts you.





BOOK 7

This book suggests a different procedure.

Admin skill can increase the number of Middle Passengers.

Carousing and Steward can increase the number of High Passengers.

Streetwise can increase the number of Low Passengers

Liaison can increase the size of minor cargo.

Bribery, Broker, and Trader still increase the Actual Value of speculative trade.



I read this as similar to the above, but allowing more fine detail. There is a Board, and maybe there is a fee (which is why minor cargoes may avoid it), but the majority of the trade and cargo business is on that board.

Then, the skills can be used as described above for extras. Minor cargo that hasn't made it to the board yet, for example.

"Yeah, I know of a few tons that are waiting to combine with a bigger lot--you could take that. And, I know of a group of tech specialists that need to go to your destination, too. You could ferry them as passengers. They haven't listed yet on the Board."

I am a little confused since you are treating speculative cargo and FREIGHT as the same thing in your comments.

Going back to the analogy of "I own a truck", it is a very different thing if ...

• I am looking to haul freight for (credits) per ton hauled from point A to point B
• I am looking to purchase a dozen pallets of straws and resell them on the black market in California for a profit.