Real pirates.

[Blue Ghost]

This is a link I got off of another website that caters to sailors like myself. I've never been around the world, only sailing off the coasts. But when I used to do a lot of blue water sailing as a pre-teen and teen, I would catch tidbits of conversations regarding gunfights. I did so again when I worked on movies, usually by some "worldly type" who liked to brag about his adventures.

This is one such tail, and it should serve as a template for part of Marc Miller's inspiration for Traveller (even though this story dates from 2007). Such incidents were more frequent in the days of yore, but are persistent to this very day;

http://www.noonsite.com/Members/doina/R2005-03-14-1

 

[Blue Ghost]

Hey fellow travellers, just a clarification here; I really didn't post this because I thought anyone would think it a cool story. In fact it's pretty awful stuff. But I did post the link here to give an example of what happens out in waters that are not well patrolled, or are just downright lawless

We've had numerous pirate threads on the BBS, nearly all of which harken back to the classic days of sail. But, pirates existed before that time, and continue to this day as a deadly aberrant. We can romanticize about them all we want, and it's fun to do so, but in the end, real pirates are just criminals out to steal property that people have worked for, even if it means doing away with whoever's in the way.

Me, I'm happy to be holed up in my suburban home, a half hour drive to either San Francisco or silicon valley. I've absolutely NO desire to go out onto the high seas, and venture into dangerous waters.

I just wanted people here to get some insight into real life examples of piracy, and how they might include that in their gaming sessions, because, to be brutally honest, that's where that stuff belongs; in the imagination.

Thanks for reading.

 

[77topaz]

Hey fellow travellers, just a clarification here; I really didn't post this because I thought anyone would think it a cool story. In fact it's pretty awful stuff.

What makes you think we thought that?

 

[Blue Ghost]

No one was replying, so I thought maybe they felt it was something I really liked or something. If so, then it's not true. I just wanted people to be aware of what goes on to this day.

I came back from another BBS that tracks pirate activity, and the coast of Somalia, portions of the Phillipenes, sections of the Caribbean, and the bite of Africa are rife with pirates. It's pretty brutal stuff. Think being mugged in the city of your choice, only this time you're on the ocean, and the other guy is chasing you down in a boat.

Traveller tries to mimic those scenarios, so I figured people would want to glimpse the real thing to get how such contemporary confrontations occur.

 

[aramis]

Traveller tries to mimic those scenarios, so I figured people would want to glimpse the real thing to get how such contemporary confrontations occur.

It's well worth noting that the areas where these are happening are places where the local governments are either practically defunct, notoriously corrupt, or suspected of overt collusion in the piracy (but just shy of an actual letter of marque and reprisal).

It's also worth noting that the "Piracy is impossible" crowd generally don't want to hear anything about real world piracy, assuming that the visibility issues at sea make it orders of magnitude easier to sneak up on a ship than would ships in space.

 

[Blue Ghost]

It's well worth noting that the areas where these are happening are places where the local governments are either practically defunct, notoriously corrupt, or suspected of overt collusion in the piracy (but just shy of an actual letter of marque and reprisal).

It's also worth noting that the "Piracy is impossible" crowd generally don't want to hear anything about real world piracy, assuming that the visibility issues at sea make it orders of magnitude easier to sneak up on a ship than would ships in space.

You know, I never even considered that. But it's true. There's been a lot of cases presented against piracy on this BBS for Traveller, yet the link I posted, and some of the other accounts I relayed, says "hey, here it is."

We're not talking about huge navy ships of yore slugging it out, but something a little more mundane, yet no less deadly. It's something to think about.

 

[travlar]

Actually, how plausible would it be for a planet in the Imperium to quietly encourage just a little piracy? Their ships could always be just a little too slow to respond, or something like that.

 

[Omnivore]

Actually, how plausible would it be for a planet in the Imperium to quietly encourage just a little piracy? Their ships could always be just a little too slow to respond, or something like that.

How about a world say just Jump-1 off a main shipping route with a habit of looking the other way when it comes to repair of battle.. ahem.. meteorite collision damage? :devil:

 

[Whipsnade]

There's been a lot of cases presented against piracy on this BBS for Traveller...

Not quite. There's been a lot of cases presented against a narrowly defined type of piracy, the "Port-to-Jump" or "Inside the 100D Limit" piracy, and those cases are well founded.

However, the pro-piracy Yo-Ho-Hos apply a narrow definition of piracy out of both historical ignorance and a lack of understanding concerning vector movement while the anti-pirate Mugwumps cynically apply to same narrow definition to "support" their case.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Not quite. There's been a lot of cases presented against a narrowly defined type of piracy, the "Port-to-Jump" or "Inside the 100D Limit" piracy, and those cases are well founded.

However, the pro-piracy Yo-Ho-Hos apply a narrow definition of piracy out of both historical ignorance and a lack of understanding concerning vector movement while the anti-pirate Mugwumps cynically apply to same narrow definition to "support" their case.

So, what now, there's a huge gray are between jumps where this stuff is likely to happen? I think pirates would probably burn tons of fuel to catch a civilian exiting jump, then threaten, or try to board after exchanging shots. I mean, how is anybody to know what happened on that X-starport rated system?

 

[Dragoner]

One man's pirate is another man's freedom fighter, or maybe "none dare call it piracy"....blah blah blah.

 

[Omnivore]

Under certain conditions you might see piracy as part of an organized crime protection racket. "Buy our piracy insurance, it's a really good idea..."

Brian

 

[Dragoner]

Exactly, a mafia called the Third Imperium with it's local capo, er "Duke" yeah that's the ticket....

 

[jshiggin]

So, what now, there's a huge gray are between jumps where this stuff is likely to happen? I think pirates would probably burn tons of fuel to catch a civilian exiting jump, then threaten, or try to board after exchanging shots. I mean, how is anybody to know what happened on that X-starport rated system?

The biggest problem with catching someone exiting jump is that things reduce to two cases:

1) you can control where you exit pretty precisely

or

2) you can't.

In the second case, there's no particular reason, other than blind luck, why a pirate will be near enough to you to catch you before you reach your destination, especially given that he has to match orbits with you while you're running (so he can't just accelerate to overtake, he has to slow his overtake enough to actually stop where you are).

In the first case, you exit just outside the 100 diameter limit, and even assuming zero relative velocity, you're on the ground in less than seven hours (seven hours at one G will get you from 100D to ground on a size A planet - all others are faster). Again, the pirate has to chase you down and match orbits, but this time the patrol cruiser or SDB is pulling 3-6G's with the goal of getting within weapon range, NOT matching orbits.

Note, of course, that there's always wilderness refueling as an option for the pirate to lurk, but the fact is that sane merchants just won't do that, and with a choice of gas giants in most systems, the pirate is going to have to get lucky to catch you.


By the by, to put some numbers on things. Size ten world, pirate at a random spot on the 100 diameter limit. You appear at the 100 diameter limit. Odds are pirate is 1.6 million klicks away from you, or farther.
Assuming a Corsair, he's pulling 3G, you're pulling 1G. You have a seven hour run, he will take ~5 hours to match course with you. Which will put the two of you within weapon range of the ground or any orbiting ship.
And will also put the pirate into a position that if he grabs your ship, he's got about an eight hour run to the 100D limit.

So, that gives the pirate two hours to capture your ship, overcome any lockouts you might put on your controls, and start running, all the while under the guns of any planetary defenses, and possibly being chased by any Patrol Cruiser/SDB that ought to be present unless you're in the boondocks.

And that's almost the best reasonable case. Yes, you can assume you pop out of jump right on top of the pirate, but building a business model on the assumption that you're going to get the 1% chance coming up monthly???

Now, ask me about pirates hitting small new colonies...THOSE can make some serious coin, as long as they've got more suitable ships than those stinking Corsairs....

 

[Omnivore]

I'm pretty sure this has been discussed to death already somewhere on these forums, but...

You're presenting a scenario where the pirate is a complete idiot.

1) Smart pirate knows where you're going (either low port or high port). Easy to sit in geosynchronous or other favorable orbit to intercept common inbound vectors. Even worse, catch them on the outbound vector.
2) Smart pirate doesn't match vectors with victim, he demands victim comply with his directions to a rendezvous point. Otherwise he blasts him in a fly by intercept.
3) Smart pirate seeing a Patrol Cruiser or other military ship anywhere near goes and finds greener pastures.
4) Smart pirate doesn't mess with areas around planets with serious levels of planetary defenses.
5) Smart pirate doesn't need thugs, and only needs prize crews if he wants to steal the entire ship. Send over one guy with a backpack nuke (remote controlled (more likely timed) of course - he'll do it for a double share). Either the victim complies or vaporizes.*

So unless there are meson gun pits, SDB's and patrol/customs cruisers at every world, some are going to be risky.

*Forgot Niven's approach - dead man switch on the booby-trapped backpack nuke.

 

[rancke]

I'm pretty sure this has been discussed to death already somewhere on these forums, but...

It has, but...

You're presenting a scenario where the pirate is a complete idiot.

1) Smart pirate knows where you're going (either low port or high port). Easy to sit in geosynchronous or other favorable orbit to intercept common inbound vectors. Even worse, catch them on the outbound vector.

Not easy at all. Legitimate visitors to a system do not lurk at the jump limit or in geosynchronous orbit. They move from arrival point to starport on the vector assigned to them by System Control, land, conduct legitimate business, and leave again as fast as they can. Starships are expensive and every minute a legitimate merchant isn't doing business it is burning money, so any deviation from that pattern is suspicious and invites examination by system forces.

Now, it's possible that some system defenders are too lazy to follow up on suspicious behavior. But since exposing a pirate means someone gets to earn a fortune (by confiscating the pirate ship), it's not a chance I'd like to gamble my life on.

2) Smart pirate doesn't match vectors with victim, he demands victim comply with his directions to a rendezvous point. Otherwise he blasts him in a fly by intercept.

If the victim is armed the pirate has to go into harms way if he wants to shoot at it.

3) Smart pirate seeing a Patrol Cruiser or other military ship anywhere near goes and finds greener pastures.

Yes, but because merchant ships can jump from under the guns of one system navy to under the guns of another system navy, the only green pastures around are those with very little civilian traffic, and any civilian traffic to such places are apt to be armed to defend their multi-million asset.

4) Smart pirate doesn't mess with areas around planets with serious levels of planetary defenses.

A pirate has to go where the potential prizes are. Which is the #1 problem pirates have with the Traveller jump drive. There is effectively very little space in the space between worlds.

5) Smart pirate doesn't need thugs, and only needs prize crews if he wants to steal the entire ship. Send over one guy with a backpack nuke (remote controlled (more likely timed) of course - he'll do it for a double share). Either the victim complies or vaporizes.*

Professional pirates are not suicíde bombers.

So unless there are meson gun pits, SDB's and patrol/customs cruisers at every world, some are going to be risky.

There aren't. Just at any world with unarmed victims. Unless the local interstellar government bothers to patrol the low- and low-middle population worlds, in which case there are patrol ships at those too.


Hans

 

[Omnivore]

Well I can tell we're at a complete disconnect on this subject. We're seeing two entirely different realities. No disrespect intended but I don't agree with a single one of your points above Hans. I will agree to disagree.

Brian

 

[Carlobrand]

I'm pretty sure this has been discussed to death already somewhere on these forums, but...

You're presenting a scenario where the pirate is a complete idiot.

1) Smart pirate knows where you're going (either low port or high port). Easy to sit in geosynchronous or other favorable orbit to intercept common inbound vectors. Even worse, catch them on the outbound vector.
2) Smart pirate doesn't match vectors with victim, he demands victim comply with his directions to a rendezvous point. Otherwise he blasts him in a fly by intercept.
3) Smart pirate seeing a Patrol Cruiser or other military ship anywhere near goes and finds greener pastures.
4) Smart pirate doesn't mess with areas around planets with serious levels of planetary defenses.
5) Smart pirate doesn't need thugs, and only needs prize crews if he wants to steal the entire ship. Send over one guy with a backpack nuke (remote controlled (more likely timed) of course - he'll do it for a double share). Either the victim complies or vaporizes.*

So unless there are meson gun pits, SDB's and patrol/customs cruisers at every world, some are going to be risky.

*Forgot Niven's approach - dead man switch on the booby-trapped backpack nuke.

Exactly - the key word being, "smart." Humans are pretty adept at finding ways to accomplish their objectives. The smart ones succeed, the dumb ones get Darwined out of the pool. But, even the dumb ones can make things dangerous for us smuggl... umm, law-abiding entrepreneurs.

Ghost's link highlights a number of interesting points:

1. The pirate has the initiative. Until he actually makes a threat or fires a shot, he's just a suspicious ship. The law-abiding traveller - or any reasonable person seeking to avoid nasty legal entanglements - dare not fire first, lest HE be accused of being the aggressor. By the time the pirate's intentions are clear, he's got you where he wants you.

2. The pirate has a plan. He knows his intentions; you don't. He knows where he is and what's around, and he picks his battlefield to minimize his risks and maximize his odds of success. You are fighting on ground of the enemy's choosing, which means you probably can't count on rescue; if you could, he wouldn't be fighting you here.

3. The pirate counts on intimidating his prey either through threat of force or, in this instance, through overwhelming force. The threat strategy preys on basic logic: is your cargo worth damage to your ship, death or injury to passengers or the loss of your own life?

In this case, the strategy was overwhelming force, the basic rapid dominance or "shock-and-awe" strategy: massive overwhelming force to undermine the target's ability to think and react effectively. Didn't work here; the target replied with disciplined fire that forced the attacker to seek cover, disrupting his attack. At this point, a smart pirate would have broken off and waited for easier prey. These attackers weren't very smart - or perhaps too caught up in the heat of the fight, or too stubborn - and paid the price. However, there is always easier prey. Not everyone has the training or disposition to respond intelligently when suddenly confronted with lethal violence.

Which brings us to...

4. The pirate is not rational. Even with the odds strongly in your favor, there is always the chance of bad luck and the unexpected in any potential conflict situation. An unexpected rescuer appears from nowhere, the prey proves to be stronger or more resourceful (case in point) or just a bit crazier than expected, or you fall victim to a wildly lucky shot. There is no logic in gambling 40-60 years of future life against anything less than a haul big enough to set you and your companions up for life, yet pirates routinely "roll the dice" for smaller scores - or else they burn through that haul and end up picking up the dice again. Pirates don't tend to think long-term in a rational way - they either figure they're too strong or clever to be hurt or they figure they'll be dead soon anyway so a little risk is worthwhile. The barbarian strategy - if I am less rational than you, then I am more dangerous than you.

A smart irrational person is very very dangerous, but someone foolishly irrational can be pretty dangerous as well. The attackers chose poor strategy; the defenders responded with effective strategy. Had the attackers stumbled onto defenders who were less disciplined under fire, the outcome would have been very different. Given the number of underpopulated worlds with limited resources (or will) to police their orbital space, it's not hard to see something like that happening in a lot of the Imperium's backwater regions.

 

[Carlobrand]

Legitimate visitors to a system do not lurk at the jump limit or in geosynchronous orbit. They move from arrival point to starport on the vector assigned to them by System Control, land, conduct legitimate business, and leave again as fast as they can.

You've just described a Class A/B starport - no piracy there per canon. Ghost's real-world example occurred where there was little to no policing of the sea lanes - more akin to the situation in orbit around a Class D/E/X starport. If the world doesn't have the tech or cash to maintain a force in orbit to watch for those lurkers, then the lurkers lurk. Even an armed launch can cost Cr14-17 million - 750 thousand credits every year in taxes, not counting the cost of the pilot, fuel and groundside maintenance, and after a 3 million credit down payment. That can take a big bite out of a small colony's budget, especially if they don't get much space traffic to begin with. And, it would take considerably more than an armed launch to threaten a ship capable of preying on free traders and such.

... Now, it's possible that some system defenders are too lazy to follow up on suspicious behavior. But since exposing a pirate means someone gets to earn a fortune (by confiscating the pirate ship), it's not a chance I'd like to gamble my life on.

Note my statement above. Some systems simply don't have the means to follow up on suspicious behavior - gold at the end of that rainbow or not. And exposing a pirate does not mean someone gets to earn a fortune - not unless you've got some serious firepower to begin with. If your system can afford serious firepower, you are not a system where pirates are likely to lurk.

If the victim is armed the pirate has to go into harms way if he wants to shoot at it.

Note my previous post: pirates are not known for being rational. That "harms way" argument would have applied to Vikings as well - didn't seem to slow them down. Same argument applies to mercs and most adventurers, for that matter. Very few people who engage regularly in violent or criminal behavior are doing so based on a rational risk-benefit analysis. Historically, pirates didn't tend to be the kind of people who died of old age.

... because merchant ships can jump from under the guns of one system navy to under the guns of another system navy, the only green pastures around are those with very little civilian traffic ...

True, though "very little" might still be enough to support a pirate if the haul is big enough.

... and any civilian traffic to such places are apt to be armed to defend their multi-million asset.

Also true. Now let's see if your free trader with its two triple-missile mounts, 1g drive and computer-1 can give a good fight to a 4-triple-turret pirate with 4g and computer-3 run by some psychotic and his band of cut-throats and clandestinely subsidized by some trouble-making Sword-World government. Or would you prefer to have a subsidized merchant oppose the pirate?

Point is, this isn't just about crazy locals taking up a stolen launch to extort or rob the odd passerby. Piracy flourishes where specific circumstances favor piracy. Historically, pirates range from the Yemeni opportunists to the professional privateers preying on the rather well-armed Spanish treasure fleet with the support and connivance of the Elizabethan government. And let us not forget the "shores of Tripoli".

In the Marches, those circumstances include political circumstances - Vargr banks subsidizing pirates who bring back commandeered multi-million-credit prize ships to be sold among the Vargr worlds, Sword-World and Zho governments subsidizing pirates at a loss just to make trouble, shady interstellar corporations subsidizing pirates to further their own political and commercial plans, desperate local governments engaging in a clandestine bit of robbery "just this once" to save their world from some financial catastrophe, and so forth.

A pirate has to go where the potential prizes are. Which is the #1 problem pirates have with the Traveller jump drive. There is effectively very little space in the space between worlds.

Again, you're describing an A/B port. On those poorer worlds where help is not on the way, jump-to-orbit can be a million kilometers or more, 4 to 6 hours alone in space. That's a long time when you're a free trader or subsidized merchant with neither agility nor armor to defend you and a couple of lucky hits is enough to cripple you. Even winning the fight could mean financial ruin from the repair costs. In that case, the savvy merchantman might be willing to accept the pirate's suggestion that he heave-to, open his cargo bay to vacuum and let the pirate's men enter the bay and take what they want without letting them into the ship itself; there aren't too many valuable items on the cargo list that can't abide a bit of vacuum.

A couple dozen tons of the right cargo from one haul could be worth anything from a quarter million credits to millions. Even a world that saw only a couple or three ships a month could be worthwhile to a patient pirate - especially if he applied his brains and had someone play the role of patron at some neighboring starport, persuading prospective prey to venture into the kill zone on some pretended errand.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Exactly - the key word being, "smart." Humans are pretty adept at finding ways to accomplish their objectives. The smart ones succeed, the dumb ones get Darwined out of the pool. But, even the dumb ones can make things dangerous for us smuggl... umm, law-abiding entrepreneurs.

Ghost's link highlights a number of interesting points:

1. The pirate has the initiative. Until he actually makes a threat or fires a shot, he's just a suspicious ship. The law-abiding traveller - or any reasonable person seeking to avoid nasty legal entanglements - dare not fire first, lest HE be accused of being the aggressor. By the time the pirate's intentions are clear, he's got you where he wants you.

2. The pirate has a plan. He knows his intentions; you don't. He knows where he is and what's around, and he picks his battlefield to minimize his risks and maximize his odds of success. You are fighting on ground of the enemy's choosing, which means you probably can't count on rescue; if you could, he wouldn't be fighting you here.

3. The pirate counts on intimidating his prey either through threat of force or, in this instance, through overwhelming force. The threat strategy preys on basic logic: is your cargo worth damage to your ship, death or injury to passengers or the loss of your own life?

In this case, the strategy was overwhelming force, the basic rapid dominance or "shock-and-awe" strategy: massive overwhelming force to undermine the target's ability to think and react effectively. Didn't work here; the target replied with disciplined fire that forced the attacker to seek cover, disrupting his attack. At this point, a smart pirate would have broken off and waited for easier prey. These attackers weren't very smart - or perhaps too caught up in the heat of the fight, or too stubborn - and paid the price. However, there is always easier prey. Not everyone has the training or disposition to respond intelligently when suddenly confronted with lethal violence.

Which brings us to...

4. The pirate is not rational. Even with the odds strongly in your favor, there is always the chance of bad luck and the unexpected in any potential conflict situation. An unexpected rescuer appears from nowhere, the prey proves to be stronger or more resourceful (case in point) or just a bit crazier than expected, or you fall victim to a wildly lucky shot. There is no logic in gambling 40-60 years of future life against anything less than a haul big enough to set you and your companions up for life, yet pirates routinely "roll the dice" for smaller scores - or else they burn through that haul and end up picking up the dice again. Pirates don't tend to think long-term in a rational way - they either figure they're too strong or clever to be hurt or they figure they'll be dead soon anyway so a little risk is worthwhile. The barbarian strategy - if I am less rational than you, then I am more dangerous than you.

A smart irrational person is very very dangerous, but someone foolishly irrational can be pretty dangerous as well. The attackers chose poor strategy; the defenders responded with effective strategy. Had the attackers stumbled onto defenders who were less disciplined under fire, the outcome would have been very different. Given the number of underpopulated worlds with limited resources (or will) to police their orbital space, it's not hard to see something like that happening in a lot of the Imperium's backwater regions.

That's kind of how I saw it, and what I wanted people to gleam from it.

When I read the response, I was truly horrified. But, those guys were under fire. It's akin to a home invasion on the high seas, and you have the means to resist. Apparently the would be pirates didn't expect to meet resistance, and folded under the pressure.

When I read that account, I was really taken aback. As an old sailor who's sailed only off the US coasts (east and west), I had a hard time imagining anybody still playing pirate in modern times. But it happens. Scary stuff.