Refereeing Advice?

[Bob Weaver]

At last week's session, my boys' PCs were scoping out a secret space base. They were sent there by the local Intelligence Agency chief to get information. The chief suspects (correctly) that a local powerful Noble is responsible for the base, and is using it for operations aimed at undermining the authority of the king, as part of a campaign to take the throne.

The PCs were supposed to infiltrate the base, which they did, quietly. They examined the hangar/warehouse and found the sealed crates of Important Stuff. They were supposed to get into the control tower, encounter some neat aliens (uplifted Otters, called Lutras) and learn of the secret moon base which was the next stop on their adventure, and the site of the climax where they do great heroics and save the planet from an attack by giant robots. Hey, my kids are 10 and 14. Kids love giant robots.

Well, they were doing just fine until the older one decided it would be a better idea to steal the slow pinnace that was sitting at the far end of the landing field. So they did, and took hostage the several maintenance workers that were aboard. I had pre-determined that neither the pinnace nor the workers had any useful intel - the Noble is good at hiding his tracks. They flew away and back to the rendezvous with the Intelligence Chief. That's where we ended last week. Our next session is tomorrow.

Help! How do I get them back on track, and how much should the Chief chew them out for failing the mission? I don't want to discourage them from the adventure, but they didn't get the intel they were supposed to which would lead them to the next step. I would be glad for any advice or suggestions.

Best regards,
Bob W.

 

[robject]

If you can, flip the adventure, so that the control tower they were supposed to take is at the Intelligence Chief's rendezvous point -- which has just been captured by the Bad Guys. They inadvertently turned the tables on you, so turn the tables on them without them knowing.

In other words, the powerful Bad Noble has put his suspected plan into effect almost at the same time the players were dispatched. The first stage of that plan is to capture the intelligence assets.

Now they have to save their home base, right?

Make the captured maintenance personnel useful - perhaps they are actually a group who were planning to rat on the Evil Nobleman. That makes them useful red-shirts and helpers. Maintenance crew can be invaluable for repairing ships wounded during battle...

 

[creativehum]

Two thoughts pop into my head:

1) If you're going to do the, "They go here, to get the clue to go here, to go there, to get the clue to go there..." you are sort of stuck making sure that no matter what they do, they get that next clue. It's the kind of adventure you are running, and, from what I've seen over the years, the technique demands you cough up the next clue some how.

In other words, instead of getting chewed out by the brass, their left actually leads to the next clue. I understand you didn't plan for it to go that way. i understand you might not even want to reward them for behaving the way they did.

But here's a thing I've observed over the years: The more a Referee expects Players to walk down a specific (metaphorical) "story corridor," the more the Players will chafe at the restrictions. They'll start making big, crazy decisions just so they feel like they have control of something in their characters' lives.

Other GMs may or may not think this observation valid. But I've seen it enough times in play that I take it very seriously. In other words, I either assume I have "no adventure" at all, or keep moving the tracks around until the PCs end up at the final destination no matter where they go. (I've played both ways successfully.)

2) A thought on luring the Players toward where you want them to go:

You wrote: "They were supposed to get into the control tower, encounter some neat aliens (uplifted Otters, called Lutras)..."

Here's a question: What was the most interesting thing in sight of the Player Characters? A control tower? Or that ship? Which would provoke the anticipation of the most fun given the Players' limited information? Walking up a flight of stairs? Or stealing a ship?

I bring this up to say, people play RPGs to do cool fictional things. And if there's something in front of them that looks like it'll be cool to play with, they're going to go do that.

I understand you wanted the Lutras to be a surprise. But let's say that the PCs caught a glimpse of the Lutras in the tower, the view obscured by a glare on the glass. But clearly some exotic something was at the tower controls.

Which way would the Players gone? Up the tower or toward that ship? I have my own guess -- and it would have been the tower. Because, in my guestimation, the Players would have been searching out the most interesting thing to explore or do.

At the time the Players went to the ship, you knew there was fun and interesting things up that tower. But the Players didn't. And so they went to the thing that was the most obvious fun thing at hand.

I understand the appeal of holding cards back for fun reveals later. But one of the things I've learned over the years is to not hold back too much. Show your cards, and then draw new cards. If you wanted the Players to have their characters go up that tower, having it be "the mission" is simply not going to be enough. This is adventure fiction. Not only do the heroes in adventure fiction break the rules all the time (and your group has seen this in action in countless movies), but, again, they're going to be looking for the most interesting thing -- orders be damned. Maybe you wish they wouldn't. Maybe you think it's wrong. But I'm only commenting on how I've seen actual people play over the years.

So, if you want people to walk down a path, make sure to tease shiny bits just out of sight down the path. There's not reason not to be clever and smart about this. But if you want them to investigate, give them something that let's them get excited about investigating. And, again, an order is not the same thing as excitement.

Just my thoughts.

 

[CosmicGamer]

how much should the Chief chew them out for failing the mission?

They were supposed to get into the control tower

Was this the GMs plan or specific instructions from the chief? How would the chief even know if they didn't do it?

 

[Quint]

Just add in another nugget. While the maint. crew doesn't know what's going on, after a short but slightly more intensive interrogation by the pro's back home they reveal the location of something else that needs investigating.

And just place something there that leads them back to where you want them to end up.

If you like, you can also seed this with "the guys upstairs, they keep complaining about how things are going slower than planned, lots of pressure to sped things up..." etc. to explain a slower time-table than previously laid out and still maintain some pressure on the players.

D.

 

[robject]

Our next session is tomorrow.

So. How did it go?

 

[SpaceBadger]

1) If you're going to do the, "They go here, to get the clue to go here, to go there, to get the clue to go there..." you are sort of stuck making sure that no matter what they do, they get that next clue. It's the kind of adventure you are running, and, from what I've seen over the years, the technique demands you cough up the next clue some how.

I have seen cited many place the Three Clue Rule. If you leav eat least three clues at a scene for your PCs, they will certainly find at least one of them.

Complications and permutations of this rule lead to node-based adventure design, so that rather than having PCs on a railroad track of "do this to get this clue to go to this place and do this to get this clue to go to the next place" you can actually present the clues in arrangements of nodes that let the players choose their path as they explore the clues, finding more as the solve each node of the puzzle, whether these are arranged in various path forms or more as a layer cake. For more, see Justin Alexander's series of articles beginning at http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/7949/roleplaying-games/node-based-scenario-design-part-1-the-plotted-approach.

 

[aramis]

Two thoughts pop into my head:

1) If you're going to do the, "They go here, to get the clue to go here, to go there, to get the clue to go there..." you are sort of stuck making sure that no matter what they do, they get that next clue. It's the kind of adventure you are running, and, from what I've seen over the years, the technique demands you cough up the next clue some how.

When using that mode, failure should not be "Don't find the clue" - the task is for avoiding side effects of having found the clue.

Really quite simple.

 

[Shonner]

Help! How do I get them back on track, and how much should the Chief chew them out for failing the mission? I don't want to discourage them from the adventure, but they didn't get the intel they were supposed to which would lead them to the next step. I would be glad for any advice or suggestions.

Best regards,
Bob W.

Either an NPC would be with them to remind them what the mission is. Or the mission is partially failed, which causes a change in plans is all for the next session. The PCs can be involved in something else and maybe the session after that they run into the noble's doings again.

 

[creativehum]

When using that mode, failure should not be "Don't find the clue" - the task is for avoiding side effects of having found the clue.

Really quite simple.

Well, yes. I agree with you.

But in the example given in the original post, the PCs didn't not get geographically near the spot they were "supposed" to find the clue. This wasn't a matter of failing a roll. This was leaving the GM's rails. My only point is, if one is playing this way, and always wants them to stay on the rails without feeling like they're trapped on the rails, the clue will be waiting at the next stop, no matter which rail line they they take.

 

[Chuck Anumia]

My Thoughts

Options:
1) The Players "Chief" sends a team to check the computer on the ship and they "Find" the clue.
2) The NPC engineers know of another site (secret mountain top home, seaside mistresses condo) where the clue might be found.
3) The Chief chews on the team before sending them back to finish their mission.

 

[Bob Weaver]

So. How did it go?

Due to Life Happening, we had only a short play session. The guys escaped with the small craft, but observed another ship flying low, heading towards the base. They interrogated the captured crewmen, and got a little information but nothing definite. When they reported to the Intelligence Chief, they mentioned the ship they saw and he got the starport people to track it when it took to the air again, and traced it to the Moon. So, the PCs are back on course.

The real problem with this scenario was I had not considered well enough my older son's natural cautiousness; the younger tends to follow his lead. So I must encourage them both to play a little bolder. Also, they're still new to RPGs and are still learning technique and thought patterns that became ingrained in me decades ago. I don't want to spoon-feed them, but I need to lead and nudge and hint more. Isn't that what rumors and NPCs are for?

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

Best regards,
Bob W

 

[flykiller]

So I must encourage them both to play a little bolder.

why not let him play natually? if you push him he will feel railroaded.

 

[JimMarn]

Well... I have moved clues.

Not often, because my house players for AD&D looked all over the dungeon, did their best to find every secret and hidden door.

One store group decided to dig a tunnel to the surface. So I moved the clue to the next dungeon by having it in a goblin skull they found in the tunnel they made.