Retrofitting ships
- Thread starter Golan2072
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mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
It is according to Trillion Credit Squadron.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Short answer no.
Longer answer yes with explanations.
You'll have to consider the design system of course (meaning the rule set) and how you (or the rule) says things like the jump drive work.
Stuff like does the jump drive IYTU use a "jump-grid" of rare-earth elements to work, or is it simply a field projection device. If you need the grid then you'll have to do a major refit by stripping the old hull plates and building new ones with the grid imbedded. If it's a field projection it's easier but still not simple.
There should be issues of heat dissapation, solid secure mounting, bulkheads against noise, radiation and possible explosion/leak of the fuel, to name a few.
And speaking of fuel that is another issue. Is the bulk of jump fuel converted to energy and coolant or used as a buffer in J-space for YTU's jump drive? If it's just burned then you should be ok, if it has to somehow get from the jump drive to the hull, evenly, and quickly, then you'll have a lot of plumbing to do. Said plumbing will probably impinge on much of the previously useful space throughout the ship.
I'm sure I could come up with other issues to worry about but in the end it's up to you. If it's something you want possible in YTU go for it
In a simple scenario (using it as a MacGuffin to get PC's interstellar on the cheap) I'd just pick some ballpark cost for the conversion work. Maybe 20% of the cost of building it new from scratch as a whole ship plus the full cost of the actual new components.
And I'd throw in a couple of kinks in the way of glitches (like one time in X the thing works badly or just a general higher chance of misjump like using drop tanks) to represent the non-original purpose of the design.
Anyway that's my off the cuff take. I'd go for feasible fun most of the time
Longer answer yes with explanations.
You'll have to consider the design system of course (meaning the rule set) and how you (or the rule) says things like the jump drive work.
Stuff like does the jump drive IYTU use a "jump-grid" of rare-earth elements to work, or is it simply a field projection device. If you need the grid then you'll have to do a major refit by stripping the old hull plates and building new ones with the grid imbedded. If it's a field projection it's easier but still not simple.
There should be issues of heat dissapation, solid secure mounting, bulkheads against noise, radiation and possible explosion/leak of the fuel, to name a few.
And speaking of fuel that is another issue. Is the bulk of jump fuel converted to energy and coolant or used as a buffer in J-space for YTU's jump drive? If it's just burned then you should be ok, if it has to somehow get from the jump drive to the hull, evenly, and quickly, then you'll have a lot of plumbing to do. Said plumbing will probably impinge on much of the previously useful space throughout the ship.
I'm sure I could come up with other issues to worry about but in the end it's up to you. If it's something you want possible in YTU go for it
And I'd throw in a couple of kinks in the way of glitches (like one time in X the thing works badly or just a general higher chance of misjump like using drop tanks) to represent the non-original purpose of the design.
Anyway that's my off the cuff take. I'd go for feasible fun most of the time
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Interesting Sigg, can you outline the TCS rules for converting in a few words? Please 
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
Depending on interpretation, the TCS retrofitting rules probably wouldn't allow you to add a jump drive to a non-starship. TCS says that "Power plant, M-drive, J-drive and spinal weapons may not be increased in tonnage." To me, adding a J-drive where there was not one before would be "increasing" the tonnage of the J-drive.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The only reason I wouldn't allow refitting a 100t or larger non-starship with a jump drive would be if I was using a version of the rules that included the hull jump grid as part of the jump drive system.
Saying that, on re-reading TCS I have to agree that it does limit refitting jump drives to ships that already have them.
So it's back to good old LBB2 - I can't find anything to stop you refitting a ship with a jump drive, provided you don't exceed the drive compartment size limitation
Saying that, on re-reading TCS I have to agree that it does limit refitting jump drives to ships that already have them.
So it's back to good old LBB2 - I can't find anything to stop you refitting a ship with a jump drive, provided you don't exceed the drive compartment size limitation
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I only read the first couple of paragraphs of Refitting Ships on page 34.Originally posted by far-trader:
Interesting Sigg, can you outline the TCS rules for converting in a few words? Please
It's the last paragraph that prevents this
My mistake, it was too early in the morning
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
No problem Sigg
If it were a CT Book 2 design the answer is that easy. Will all the drives fit in the drive section? Of course Book 5 pretty much did away with that notion unless you figure that the total of the drives installed makes up the drives section and use that as your limit for drive modifications.
Of course then, unless you're converting a SDB or other warship there won't likely be room to retrofit a jump drive into a pre-jump space ship, most of the non-mil designs will be 1G minimal power for profit reasons. And taking a 6G high power mil ship will require scaling back the maneuver and/or the power plant too so the jump drive will fit. I think it might be cheaper (if a shipyard is available) to build from scratch.
As for the jump grid question, much as I like the idea I prefer the field projection explanation to keep everything else rational in MTU. Stuff like hulls not costing extra if they are jump capable compared to just space capable, externally mounted small craft not needing protection (in some rules, may be implied between the lines in others).
If it were a CT Book 2 design the answer is that easy. Will all the drives fit in the drive section? Of course Book 5 pretty much did away with that notion unless you figure that the total of the drives installed makes up the drives section and use that as your limit for drive modifications.
Of course then, unless you're converting a SDB or other warship there won't likely be room to retrofit a jump drive into a pre-jump space ship, most of the non-mil designs will be 1G minimal power for profit reasons. And taking a 6G high power mil ship will require scaling back the maneuver and/or the power plant too so the jump drive will fit. I think it might be cheaper (if a shipyard is available) to build from scratch.
As for the jump grid question, much as I like the idea I prefer the field projection explanation to keep everything else rational in MTU. Stuff like hulls not costing extra if they are jump capable compared to just space capable, externally mounted small craft not needing protection (in some rules, may be implied between the lines in others).
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
In the morning Andy
Of course Sigg or others may beat me to it
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Actually, Andy, HG specifically mentions placing small craft on the outside of starships. But, of course, it doesn't mention anything about what that means for the jump grid....
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
That's because High Guard pre-dates the idea of a hull jump grid by several years.
Note that you can't achieve a jump drive hit on the surface explosions table - which you should be able to IMHO if the hull includes a jump grid
Note that you can't achieve a jump drive hit on the surface explosions table - which you should be able to IMHO if the hull includes a jump grid
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Hi all, and Andy specifically. I put together an answer for Andy's question as an outline of the various ways carried craft are handled (except GT) here:
Carried Vehicles, Small Craft and Ships
Carried Vehicles, Small Craft and Ships
What about retrofitting older ships for different purposes? What I had in mind was taken from the Mileu 0 materials. It seems that selected citizens who had proven their loyalty by past actions were given a chance to bid on consvicated ships (from pirates, smugglers, etc.) that had been refurbished by the navy. It stated that this method placed usable ship in "good hands" and that the navy made back what it spent to refurbish these ships from the auction proceedes.
I took it a step further and awarded a refurbished ship to a group of retired SEH holders who were "persuaded" to spend another 5 years teaching their skills to some future secret agents. When the extra 5 years are up they get the ship free and clear.
I took it a step further and awarded a refurbished ship to a group of retired SEH holders who were "persuaded" to spend another 5 years teaching their skills to some future secret agents. When the extra 5 years are up they get the ship free and clear.
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