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Scientists Are Now Transforming Saltwater Into Hydrogen Fuel

wellis

SOC-12
https://www.popularmechanics.com/sc...ow-transforming-saltwater-into-hydrogen-fuel/
Thanks to Stanford researchers, there might be a new recipe for hydrogen fuel: saltwater, electrodes and solar power. The researchers have developed a proof-of-concept for separating hydrogen and oxygen gas from seawater via electricity. It's far cheaper than the current methods, which rely on creating hydrogen fuel from purified water.

Breaking up a substance like water to create hydrogen and oxygen is called electrolysis and is a scientific technique centuries old. It was first codified by British scientific legend Michael Faraday, whose two laws of electrolysis from 1834 still guide scientists today. With a power source connecting to two water-based electrodes, scientists can get hydrogen bubbles to come out of an end called an cathode, while oxygen comes out of an end called an anode.

That works fine for fresh water, but saltwater is trickier because of its ability to corrode electrodes with chloride, which would limit a system's lifespan. The trick for Hongjie Dai, a professor of chemistry at Stanford, and his team was a change in materials.

If the anode was coated with negative charges, the scientists realized, those layers repel chloride and temper the rate of decay in the underlying metal. They created a nickel foam core, and on top of that layered nickel-iron hydroxide and then nickel sulfide. The foam core acts a conductor, and the nickel-iron hydroxide starts the electrolysis.

Without the negative charges, a system like this would run for only 12 hours. "The whole electrode falls apart into a crumble," says Michael Kenney, a graduate student in the Dai lab and co-lead author on the paper, speaking in a press statement. "But with this layer, it is able to go more than a thousand hours."
I've only posted half of the article (no idea if you allow here to post a full article or not) but I find this really interesting.

It looks like one variant of wilderness refuelling could be around, but even if ship-based fusion reactors aren't a possibility in real-life or your particular Traveller/Cepheus Engine universe, I'm sure hydrogen still has uses for fuel cells and other such things?
 
Well, that's what I always understood ocean refuelling is in Traveller, but using fusion power instead of solar one (though solar powre can also be used)...
 
Well, that's what I always understood ocean refuelling is in Traveller, but using fusion power instead of solar one (though solar powre can also be used)...
I imagine a fusion reactor provides a lot more power for the cracking of water.

To me, it's more the coating of the electrodes that sounds interesting.
 
I imagine a fusion reactor provides a lot more power for the cracking of water.

To me, it's more the coating of the electrodes that sounds interesting.

With the new materials available in Traveller (crystalion, superdense, etc). I guess this problem is solved since the begining of the space travel.
 
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With the new materials available in Traveller (crystalion, superdense, etc). I guess this probales is solved since the begining of the space travel.
One would think so, yes. Still an interesting read, thanks for the pointer: I particularly like the idea of using such materials on a dive suit, to enable refueling while underwater...

I'm still holding out hope that we'll see hydrogen fuel cell vehicles in my lifetime...I know there are pilot programs and proof-of-concepts being done by various manufacturers, but nothing widely viable yet.
 
One would think so, yes. Still an interesting read, thanks for the pointer: I particularly like the idea of using such materials on a dive suit, to enable refueling while underwater...

I'm still holding out hope that we'll see hydrogen fuel cell vehicles in my lifetime...I know there are pilot programs and proof-of-concepts being done by various manufacturers, but nothing widely viable yet.
Japan is apparently betting big on hydrogen cars: https://www.npr.org/2019/03/18/700877189/japan-is-betting-big-on-the-future-of-hydrogen-cars
 

A dollar says they loose that bet. :)

I am not against LH2, but Physics sure is.
  1. Low density means a large fuel tank.
  2. Low energy density means a short range.
  3. Cryogenic means lots of expensive insulation.
  4. High pressure means a strong, heavy tank.
  5. small molecular size means insidious diffusion through common materials ... requiring expensive exotic materials to contain it.
  6. Handling cryogenic liquids is dangerous for fuel transfer.
  7. Inability to be shipped long distances due to boil-off, means that hydrogen is most economically generated as-needed at the local "fuel station".
  8. Low economies of scale due to dispersed small generation plants.

The AutoMakers are generally putting their money into batteries and rapid charging stations.
 
Isn't a big issue with electric cars still how slowly they charge? Frankly filling up a gas tank is a lot faster than charging batteries.

Also they're expensive as hell still.
 
Isn't a big issue with electric cars still how slowly they charge? Frankly filling up a gas tank is a lot faster than charging batteries.

Also they're expensive as hell still.

There are some fast charging stations and things are (slowly :) ) getting faster. See https://cleantechnica.com/2018/12/16/ev-charging-is-getting-faster-slowly/ for one view (1st or 2nd hit when searching for EV quick charging)

And the prices are dropping as they are becoming more mainstream and the technology matures.
 
But are these fast charging stations coming quick enough? It seems like most electric car batteries can't charge that fast.

Depends on your definition of "fast enough".

The Tesla Supercharger charges an 85kwh battery fully in 75m. The range is claimed to be 265 miles.

At 70mph, that about 3h:45m of driving.

However, it will charge one half way in about 20m.

So, that's almost 400 miles with a "leisurely" 20m bathroom break in the middle.

Not practical perhaps for a Cannonball run across the country, but 400 mile range with a 20m stop captures a really large segment of the driving population.

I think Tesla has abandoned the "swap out the battery" refueling model they were proposing, but I'm not sure. Yes, the premise was you went to the facility, and the entire battery was swapped out with a charged one, in a short time.

My friends BMW is a plug in hybrid, with only an 80m range. But if she drives more than 20m in a day, it's really, really rare, and it will kick over to gas outside of that. But for her use case, it's 100% electric, plug in charged, from the solar system on their house.
 
What happens if you want or need to drive a long distance though?

Like I can drive from Fremont to LA or vice-versa on a single tank of gas in my 2017 Honda Accord.

It sounds like these electric cars don't have that capability.
 
Hydrogen tanks plus a fuel cell, for a given range, seem to be about the same aggregate as a electricity generating IC engine plus gasoline, within the scope of personal cars, and better for busses.

They also are, supposedly, less expensive to operate.

Pressure resistance of a curved surface is proportional to wall thickness. Volume scales as the cube of the scale factor, but surface area as the square, and mass of the dry tank is wall thickness times surface area.
 
So is the main thing holding back hydrogen cars how expensive hydrogen is?

Not so much that, either. It's more that the capital investment to put the supporting stations in is so expensive, and no one wants to spend the capital costs until the market is established, but the market cannot get established without the infrastructure.
 
What happens if you want or need to drive a long distance though?

Like I can drive from Fremont to LA or vice-versa on a single tank of gas in my 2017 Honda Accord.

It sounds like these electric cars don't have that capability.

You stop in to a Supercharge station for 15 minutes and get a cold drink.

If you drive from Fremont to LA all the time, maybe the extra 15 minutes is a hassle. But if it's an occasional drive, it's certainly not impossible.

You absolutely need to plan a bit in advance to make sure you can a) get where you want to go, and, b) charge up when you get there. And you can't stuff a couple of jerry cans in the back seat to boost your range.
 
I'm told the primary difference between electrical and hydrogen based propulsion is infrastructure, as you still have to send a tanker to gas stations.

It's said the Japanese missed the boat on pure electric propulsion; on the other hand, they're also very urbanized and increasingly concentrating their population there.
 
As of a 2012 study:
  • 1 kg of LH2 was roughly the energy equivalent of 1 gallon of gasoline.
  • 1 kg of LH2 cost $0.07 to manufacture on site using $0.03 per kWh off-peak electricity.
  • 1 kg of LH2 cost $12 to $16 per gallon to transport by tanker truck.
Each "gas station" needs to invest to become its own LH2 "refinery" to be competitive.
 
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