CT Only: Ship's Boat -The Ultimate Fighter?

[Golan2072]

Only recently I have started to realize how useful computers are in LBB2 space combat, with massive modifiers to the to-hit roll and even larger modifiers to the enemy's to-hit roll. So there is the disadvantage of the Fighter - with only 1 ton of excess space, it can have a Model/2bis computer installed for MCr18, which has a capacity of 6. This may run the following load:

Target (1) - required by turret
Launch (1) - required to launch missiles OR Return Fire (1) for a laser fighter
Predict-5 (2) - for +3 to-hit
Manouver/Evade-5 (2) - for -Ship's Boat skill to enemy attack rolls

So, at a total cost of MCr54 (laser) or MCr56.25 (three missile racks) the fighter can launch its missiles or shoot its laser at +3, and, given a good pilot (Ship's Boat 2), be at -2 to be hit.

Now enter the ship's boat. With 13.7 tons of excess space, it can have a Model/4 computer installed for MCr30, which has a capacity of 8/15. This may run the following load (rotating offensive and defensive programs between combat phases):

Target (1) - required by turret
Launch (1) - required to launch missiles
Return Fire (1) to shoot lasers back
Predict-5 (2) - for +3 to-hit
Manouver/Evade-6 (3) for -5 (!!!) to enemy attack rolls
Gunner Interact (1) - for +Gunner skill to hit
Select-3 (1) - allows to choose target subsystem
Anti-Missile (2) - for anti-missile defensive fire
ECM (3) - allows a roll to explode incoming missiles

So, at a total cost of MCr74.5 (laser and two missile racks) the ship's boat can shoot its missiles and its laser at +3 (or even +5 total with a gunner with Gunnery-2), and, be at -5 to be hit; it may also return fire when shot with lasers, select the enemy's sub-system to be hit, shoot at missiles defensibly and roll to explode incoming missiles.

Now, imagine a carrier with Ship's Boats - essentially heavy fighters which can hit very easily, are very difficult to hit, and are equipped with the best electronics around.

EDIT: And yes, both are EXPENSIVE. But in this role they are weapons of war employed by interstellar (or, at least, planetary) states. A contemporary F-22 costs $150 million, so costs are comparable.

 

[Supplement Four]

Very interesting, Omar.

I know many think of the computer system in CT as old school, given how computers have developed since the game was written, but I quite like the old computer system. I like the choice a player has in which programs he can use, switching them out in one phase, switching something else in when he can.

It's quite fun. And, buying those programs, like upgrading a ship, becomes a campaign goal.

Let's face it. I'm just a CT kinda-guy. I love most aspects of it.

 

[Golan2072]

Just call it electronics packages (which also include sensor systems) rather than computer programs and it'll satisfy most modern assumptions.

 

[atpollard]

Along similar lines, note the top acceleration for a 30 dTon craft in MgT.

 

[rancke]

I know many think of the computer system in CT as old school, given how computers have developed since the game was written, but I quite like the old computer system. I like the choice a player has in which programs he can use, switching them out in one phase, switching something else in when he can.

Yes, from a gaming point of view switching programs has its charms. I fondly remember some Mayday sessions long, long ago. But so could a steam-driven maneuver drive where you had to conserve your supply of coal have its charm. Just not enough to overcome the strain on my belief-suspension.


Hans

 

[aramis]

I've never found it realistic, but I have found it fun. CT small craft under Bk2 really shine about 20 Td.

 

[Supplement Four]

Just call it electronics packages (which also include sensor systems) rather than computer programs and it'll satisfy most modern assumptions.

This is what I do when I run it. Rather, it's the ship's computer dedicated to a certain function--mainly combat--integrating several types of programs and cpus on the ship. Coordination programs. Umbrella apps. Even, "Operating Systems", for a given task.

Suspends my disbelief enough, as long as I'm suspending it for Jump Drive, moving through another dimension, artificial gravity plates, and totally ignoring time dilation.

 

[boomslang]

Now, imagine a carrier with Ship's Boats - essentially heavy fighters which can hit very easily, are very difficult to hit, and are equipped with the best electronics around.

In my CT/B2 ATU, 30dton Fast Boats are pretty much the standard SDB. After you trick out the basic Ship's Boat with computer and weaponry, there is plenty of room left over in there for cabins and magazine space and auxiliary fuel and emergency low berths (for rescue ops), or even entire Marine boarding parties (and a GCarrier for them to ride over in so you do not have to hazard the Boat itself by docking directly with some suspicious bogie).

 

[Dagrill]

Only recently I have started to realize how useful computers are in LBB2 space combat, with massive modifiers to the to-hit roll and even larger modifiers to the enemy's to-hit roll. So there is the disadvantage of the Fighter - with only 1 ton of excess space, it can have a Model/2bis computer installed for MCr18, which has a capacity of 6. This may run the following load:

Now, imagine a carrier with Ship's Boats - essentially heavy fighters which can hit very easily, are very difficult to hit, and are equipped with the best electronics around..

Don't imagine a carrier just imagine the Gazelle and Type T, with their Ship's Boat carrying he computer/programmes you specify and suddenly they become the stuff of Pirate's nightmares,

Regards

David

 

[tbeard1999]

In my Commonwealth campaign, the A-20 Vindicator gunship is a modified ship's boat.

"The Vindicator is designed for extended duration missions. It has a mission endurance of 2 weeks; 4 weeks if 3 tons of supplies are carried. This make the Vindicator able to remain on station far longer than fighters. Vindicators are often used for patrol missions, as their duration makes them much more useful in such roles. Minimum crew is 1 pilot and 1 weapons officer. Extended duration missions from bases usually carry 2 pilots and 2 weapons officers. Vindicator crews are often cross-trained in boarding tactics. The ship's locker on a Vindicator will include appropriate gear for boarding parties. A typical loadout might include: 4 self sealing armored spacesuits (treat as Cloth); 4 EVA thruster packs; 1 plasma torch capable of breaching hull metal; 4 cutlasses, 4 snub pistols with HEAP, 4 combat shotguns (with detachable grenade launchers). 12 tear gas grenades; 12 flash grenades; 6 dual purpose HE/HEAP grenades; 6 flechette grenades; 4 respirators. The pistols are used for zero-g operations; the shotguns for more typical operations.

"Vindicators are technically small craft, so they are not named. Of course, crews unofficially bestow names on them all the time."

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=11099&page=2

These craft are used for long range and long duration patrols and are not generally expected to go up against modern fighters or military starships. If used in a front-line military role, they would be equipped with the modular AN/SLQ-501 electronic warfare suite (a Model 5 computer). As these systems are very expensive (Mcr45; 3 times the cost of the Vindicator) and cranky, they are not fitted as standard gear. The modular AN/SLQ-253 (a Model 2 bis; Mcr18) and AN/SLQ 150 (a model 1 bis; Mcr9) are also available.

I don't use computer programs in my campaign; I just apply the High Guard computer-as-dm mechanic. If I did, these systems would have the best Predict and Evade programs they could run, along with ECM.

Vindicators can be found operating from bases as well as the Kirk-class gunship tenders. They are the most common patrol craft that PCs are likely to encounter.

 

[Golan2072]

Don't imagine a carrier just imagine the Gazelle and Type T, with their Ship's Boat carrying he computer/programmes you specify and suddenly they become the stuff of Pirate's nightmares.

Exactly. And most pirates won't carry these expensive electronics as they won't necessarily be able to afford them. Military ships in LBB2 are distinguished by their computer hardware and software, which have a HUGE impact on combat.

 

[Golan2072]

In my Commonwealth campaign, the A-20 Vindicator gunship is a modified ship's boat.

These craft are used for long range and long duration patrols and are not generally expected to go up against modern fighters or military starships. If used in a front-line military role, they would be equipped with the modular AN/SLQ-501 electronic warfare suite (a Model 5 computer). As these systems are very expensive (Mcr45; 3 times the cost of the Vindicator) and cranky, they are not fitted as standard gear. The modular AN/SLQ-253 (a Model 2 bis; Mcr18) and AN/SLQ 150 (a model 1 bis; Mcr9) are also available.

I like this ship design. But just think about the LBB2 effect of a carrier filled with Ship's Boats with maxed-out computer hardware and software...

I don't use computer programs in my campaign; I just apply the High Guard computer-as-dm mechanic. If I did, these systems would have the best Predict and Evade programs they could run, along with ECM.

One thing I like about using LBB2 software is that THIS is a big difference between civilian and military ships - software is EXPENSIVE and thus only big-budget operations (such as the military) have the money to afford maxing it out. Also, if you don't like the 1970's feel of cycling programs between storage and active memory, you can always call them "electronics modules" which the CPU can connect to a limited number thereof at once (they have a limited number of connection ports). But I do like the 1970's feel of computers, as it reminds me of Alien, as well as the 2004 Battlestar Galactica.

 

[OracleBoyd]

Patrol Cruiser/Carrier

This is a great concept!

I've been playing around with these a bit with the idea of making a Mini-Battle Rider out out of them and came up with the following:

Building these at TL14 means you can add Armor 6 as well if you use the adapted rules making them truly nasty and still leaving 9.9 Tons of internal space. for whatever else you want to do with them.

I was playing around with modifying the Patrol Cruiser to carry 3 of these (and an improved Computer), but it requires stripping out too many staterooms to carry enough troops for my taste. I like the idea of having a large squad of troops with 3 Heavy assault craft (capable of carrying GCarriers or troops or both). Sort of a combination Mercenary Cruiser/Carrier.

The thought occurred to me that perhaps I could do something like the Close Escort and carry 3 of the Boats externally. Increasing the Drives and Plant to J gives keeps it at Jump 3 with 3G acceleration while the boats are attached and 4G when they are deployed. With fuel for Jump 3 at 500 tons, Comp 6 an extra hard point and 15 staterooms I'm left with 36 tons to work with.

I kind of like the idea of 6 tons of Missile storage and using the other 30 for an internal boat bay. Allowing one of the Boats to be brought on board for repairs/maintenance/shuttling dignitaries, a 4th Boat added, or a number of other options.

Utilizing TL12 Boats it would make a great escort for a Broadsword class ship (call it the Buckler class maybe). It would carry a 4th squad of troops (giving the pair a full platoon) plus additional options for deployment and support in addition to the added defense.

 

[Matt123]

As a comparison, the Imperial Heavy Fighter is 50ton and has the equivalent of a model 6 computer (plus good armor). Cost is 105MCr. (Source: Fighting Ships p26).

I can see pirates liking the tricked out ships boat too with the Imperium still maintaining a combat edge.

 

[Golan2072]

As a comparison, the Imperial Heavy Fighter is 50ton and has the equivalent of a model 6 computer (plus good armor). Cost is 105MCr. (Source: Fighting Ships p26).

I can see pirates liking the tricked out ships boat too with the Imperium still maintaining a combat edge.

You are comparing the "heavy fighter" of LBB2 with the Heavy Fighter of LBB5; in LBB2, the Ship's Boat is the best fighter around, as far as I understand.

 

[Matt123]

You are comparing the "heavy fighter" of LBB2 with the Heavy Fighter of LBB5; in LBB2, the Ship's Boat is the best fighter around, as far as I understand.

Both exist in canon. You will be able to build the 50tn heavy fighter using book 2 rules as well (perhaps with a little bit of fudging, especially as book 2 does not consider armor). Regardless, the Ships Boat will likely be the best you can get as a civilian.

 

[ian54]

Just to chip in as I was having some thoughts about "big" computers (being involved in this industry).

Most space computer systems are often thought of as per Apollo, but this was for a planned mission where only specific parameters were required, most set at the start with minor course corrections on the way. Not something the average interstellar starship is going to make do with, considering the vast variety of space objects it will encounter.

Consider that in space, in a universe where communication is sub-light, the only way ship sensors can effectively detect anything is by passive scanning of radiation in all wavelengths, with perhaps active scanning involved as well. This needs to be done at the incredible speeds of both the ship itself and other bodies, and involves close to 360 degree observation, after all, you can do without that planet closing in behind you at 30 km/second. So, the upshot is a sensor array and computer system capable of crunching huge amounts of real-time data, separating the closer objects from the slow moving star background, and evaluating for trajectories, this is true for both normal space flight and combat.

A shipboard computer would need massively parallel computational power to achieve this, raw processor speed on its own wont just do, whatever the TL. Consider that the largest TL 7 supercomputers may be able to perform such feats and they occupy building sized amounts of real estate, even later technologies would probably still require vast amounts of room to put these things in.

 

[selunatic2397]

You make a good point, I'll use your logic on my players when they seem to want I-Phone 6 sized mainframes.

 

[mike wightman]

Just ask them how big a computer is needed to solve the n-body problem, then ask them how big do they think a computer would have to be to solve a multidimensional n-body problem for two stellar systems.

 

[robject]

One thing I like about using LBB2 software is that THIS is a big difference between civilian and military ships - software is EXPENSIVE and thus only big-budget operations (such as the military) have the money to afford maxing it out.

The thing I like about LBB2 software rules is that it forces an almost role-playing-like risk decision on the players. Someone decides what the ship is optimized for during a combat round. There may be arguments about it. It's a balance of risk.

That's a great way to make space combat interesting.