• Welcome to the new COTI server. We've moved the Citizens to a new server. Please let us know in the COTI Website issue forum if you find any problems.

Skill points

Rover

SOC-13
For a long while I have been slightly dissatisfied with the way skill points work. There are two issues really.

1st some classes get two few in my opinion. Marines get only 2 per level + bonus while academics get 8 + Bonus. I realize that a marine gets lots of advantages in terms of combat and stamina points, but in real life to be a successful marine it takes more than being tough and shooting straight. There are lots of skills needed.

My second issue is the linear nature of the skill system. A class like academic gets so many kill points they can get the equivalent of several PHD’s and be an expert in many fields.

Now skills are very important in a game like T20 and character with too high a level can do almost anything. Other characters can do almost nothing except fight.

I know that multiclassing can solve some of the issues, but does not always fit into every character concept. Here are some changes I am thinking about.

Upping the minimum number of skill points per level to 3 or maybe 4.

Second I would up the skill point cost at higher ranks, that way the more you learn about a topic, the harder it is to get better.

1-5 ranks 1 point per rank
6-10 ranks 2 points per rank
10-15 ranks 3 points per rank

Cross class still double at each respective level.

I am unsure if I would apply this to all skills or just cascade skills like P/ K/ and T/

Has anyone tried this out anything like this in there own games? How did it work out?

Or am I just opening a can of worms that is better left sealed.
 
No, you're just reinventing Spacemaster...

I played ICE fantasy game a long while back, and I am unfamilier with SpaceMaster.

So I take it you think this is a bad Idea. Would it cause balance issues, or do you think it would be a record keeping headach?
 
It may be better just to up the allowance for Marines if you think it's too low (e.g. 4 skill points + INT).
 
It may be better just to up the allowance for Marines if you think it's too low (e.g. 4 skill points + INT).

Actually they are seperate issues. Yes I think marines have two few skill points. That is why I want to boost it.

The other issue is that I want to limit the # of skills the PC's can specialize in, go above 5 ranks while enforcing a law of diminishing returns.

R
 
I had the same concerns when I joined COTI and decided to use d20 over TNE.

I reduced the number of skills to about 40. I just took the Starship Troopers list and added Astrogation.
Next I made a star wars Saga edition type ranking of skills into Hobby/Trained/Focused, and awarded skills based on Terms served in pregeneration.

So far its working well...
Marines have enough skills to pull their weight and develop some background character.
And once you have maxed out the Hobby/Trained/Focused chain advancement slows to a boost to your skill every 2 levels (which also slow down).

Maybe something similar will work for you?
 
Last edited:
I had the same concerns when I joined COTI and decided to use d20 over TNE.

I reduced the number of skills to about 40. I just took the Starship Troopers list and added Astrogation.
Next I made a star wars Saga edition type ranking of skills into Hobby/Trained/Focused, and awarded skills based on Terms served in pregeneration.

So far its working well...
Marines have enough skills to pull their weight and develop some background character.
And once you have maxed out the Hobby/Trained/Focused chain advancement slows to a boost to your skill every 2 levels (which also slow down).

Maybe something similar will work for you?

I am not sure how that would work. I am unfamiler with SW saga edition. do you have a link that might go into more depth?

Like I said these are only minor issues I am having. Overall I am very happy with the system, I just want to make some tweaks.

R
 
If you seriously mean it's close but not quite and you want to only tweak, then do it in small increments and test. Add say 1 skill point to the low skill careers and balance that with a small reduction in combat ability by changing the progression of the BAB. Balance that with a similar reduction of 1 skill point for the high skill careers and a bump in their BAB.

It's all about balance. If you only tweak one part you skew the game to favoritism, potentially to be exploited by munchkins. If you over tweak even if balanced you tend towards a too blended environment and there's no difference between an Academic and a Soldier.

imo fwiw
 
Spacemaster and Rolemaster are the same system, with different classes and skills.
 
It may be better just to up the allowance for Marines if you think it's too low (e.g. 4 skill points + INT).

Or just let the players multiclass....

Seriously, the fix for this is called 2 levels of Professional.

Marines have 2 SP. But since 99% of them are human, they actually get 1 bonus skill. So without modifying anything, I can create this monstrosity:

++Full BAB++
Pilot-Full
Gunnery-Full
Spot-Full

Pick your feats and he can fly any vehicle you want him to fly and he can shoot almost any weapon in the game and be damn good at both. He’s a Cavalry pilot/gunner, Fighter Pilot/Gunner, Starship Pilot/Gunnery, Heavy Weapons Crewman, etc. He’s a great rifleman thanks to full spot and his weapon profs combine with full BAB.

I guess I don’t see where this is broken. Do you really want a player doing all this and repairing the jump drive?
 
I am not sure how that would work. I am unfamiler with SW saga edition. do you have a link that might go into more depth?

Like I said these are only minor issues I am having. Overall I am very happy with the system, I just want to make some tweaks.

R

Hmm, I dont have a link but maybe one of the reviews on RPG.Net has a run down.
Basically Saga goes something like; you get one rank in every skill every second level. If you're trained in the skill you get +5, if you get skill focus you get another +5. You can only train in skills on the list for your class. Each new skill/focus is the equivalent of a feat. As normal you can't use certain skills untrained.

The changes I made were, Training is still worth +5. You can pick up skills as a hobby, including ones not on your class list, assuming you have a chance to learn it. A Hobby is worth +2. Skill focus can be taken for a skill you have as a Hobby or a Trained skill, and is worth a +3.
The players can spend XP between levels to pick up hobbies and training from other crew members, or from RNA implants back home.

These changes may be bigger than you want and most traditional COTI's may hate it, but your post did ask for alternatives that people have tried.


In case it helps, here is the reduced skill list I use.
Skill Key Ability Untrained?
Acrobatics Dex Yes
Athletics Str Yes
Astrogation Int No
Code-Breaking Int No
Computer Use Int No
Concentration Con Yes
Demolitions Int No
Drive Dex Yes
Escape Artist Dex Yes
Forgery Int No
Handle Animal Cha No
Investigate Int Yes
Knowledge
(alien species) Int No
Knowledge (art) Int No
Knowledge
(Behavioural Sciences) Int No
Knowledge (business) Int No
Knowledge (civics) Int No
Knowledge
(current events) Int No
Knowledge (earth &
life sciences) Int No
Knowledge (history &
moral philosophy) Int No
Knowledge
(physical sciences) Int No
Knowledge
(popular culture) Int No
Knowledge
(streetwise) Int No
Knowledge (tactics) Int No
Knowledge
(technology) Int No
Knowledge (theology
and philosophy) Int No
Perception Wis Yes
Persuasion Cha Yes
Pilot Dex No
Repair Int No
Research Int Yes
Ride Dex Yes
Sabotage Int No
Sleight of Hand Dex No
Stealth Dex Yes
Survival Wis Yes
Technical (chemical) Int No
Technical (electrical) Int No
Technical
(mechanical) Int No
Technical (structural) Int No
Treat Injury Wis No


Another option may be to reduce 1st level choices to the likes of Academic, Rogue, Noble, Belter and Barbarian, to represent skills gained growing up and being educated. So your Marine gets his basic education and a few hobbies/interest and skills not directly related to maiming people. At least the ability to spot/listen/survival he picked up in boy scouts before suffering the 2 SP/level.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top