Snub Pistol Power

[Meeko100]

I was fiddling on the Wiki and found the article on snub pistols. It read that snub pistols shoot a 6 gram projectile at 100-150 meters per second (92 grain bullet at 410 feet per second)

Putting that into a energy calculator, it put out that the bullet is carrying 57 joules (30-ish ft-lbs) of energy at the muzzle.

As a side note, a 22 long rifle bullet carries 100 ft-lbs of energy depending on the loading.

So, this may just be to make note of this, but that seems incredibly low in power. Thoughts?

I know that it wasnt meant to be read like this, but it crossed my mind reading it. Accelerator weapons also come to mind with this issue but they at least have boosters to get more velocity.

 

[mike wightman]

The snub pistol shoots exploding bullets, not solid slugs. They are either HE or HEAP - although non lethal rounds are also available.

It isn't the kinetic energy of the bullet that does the damage but the warhead itself.

 

[whulorigan]

I was fiddling on the Wiki and found the article on snub pistols. It read that snub pistols shoot a 6 gram projectile at 100-150 meters per second (92 grain bullet at 410 feet per second)

Putting that into a energy calculator, it put out that the bullet is carrying 57 joules (30-ish ft-lbs) of energy at the muzzle.

As a side note, a 22 long rifle bullet carries 100 ft-lbs of energy depending on the loading.

So, this may just be to make note of this, but that seems incredibly low in power. Thoughts?

I know that it wasnt meant to be read like this, but it crossed my mind reading it. Accelerator weapons also come to mind with this issue but they at least have boosters to get more velocity.

That is actually the entire point. The Snub Pistol fires a low-powered round so as to avoid recoil effects - they are designed so that they can be used in zero-g without sending you rotating end-over end uncontrollably (key-word).

That is also why Snub Pistols always use special ammunition (they don't use generic "ball" round) to compensate for the low-power projectile; HE/HEAP or Flechette for combat, Tranq/Gas rounds for non-lethal response.

Accelerator Rifles make up for the low-power round by using the gyrojet rocket charge on the bullet to accelerate the round en route to the target, as you mentioned.

Theoretically you could design an accelerator (gyrojet) pistol as well, but as pistols are usually close-range weapons, they will have difficulty building up significant momentum by the time they strike their target, unlike a rifle which is used at longer ranges.

 

[Meeko100]

Da.

Then its worth asking what kinda explosives are in that bullet 6 grams isn't a lot.

My mind went "huh" when I read the wiki entry (and just recently the Book 4 description). I started on MgT, and they have an entry for ball ammo. So that seemed unreasonable for ball.

 

[mike wightman]

TL8 explosives - that's like the difference between Chinese firecrackers and C4...

 

[nobby-w]

I was fiddling on the Wiki and found the article on snub pistols. It read that snub pistols shoot a 6 gram projectile at 100-150 meters per second (92 grain bullet at 410 feet per second)

Putting that into a energy calculator, it put out that the bullet is carrying 57 joules (30-ish ft-lbs) of energy at the muzzle.

As a side note, a 22 long rifle bullet carries 100 ft-lbs of energy depending on the loading.

So, this may just be to make note of this, but that seems incredibly low in power. Thoughts?
...

Yes, the point is that the payload is a HE or HEAP round, and that does the damage. The weapon is deliberately low power to minimise recoil for use in zero-G.

 

[nobby-w]

...
Accelerator Rifles make up for the low-power round by using the gyrojet rocket charge on the bullet to accelerate the round en route to the target, as you mentioned.

Theoretically you could design an accelerator (gyrojet) pistol as well, but as pistols are usually close-range weapons, they will have difficulty building up significant momentum by the time they strike their target, unlike a rifle which is used at longer ranges.

I have - off and on - had a rocket pistol IMTU that fired explosive rounds not unlike the snub pistol. The original idea was something like a cross between the Gyrojet and the rocket pistols from the Deathworld series of books (minus the power holster). In practice, it really just overlapped the snub pistol in its niche within the game so I stopped using it.

 

[aramis]

Da.

Then its worth asking what kinda explosives are in that bullet 6 grams isn't a lot.

My mind went "huh" when I read the wiki entry (and just recently the Book 4 description). I started on MgT, and they have an entry for ball ammo. So that seemed unreasonable for ball.

keep in mind 4g of silver fulminate or mercury fulminate can produce a significant amount of bang.

4g of TETRYL gives about 500 J - as much as the propulsion on a mid caliber rifle.

 

[whulorigan]

I have - off and on - had a rocket pistol IMTU that fired explosive rounds not unlike the snub pistol. The original idea was something like a cross between the Gyrojet and the rocket pistols from the Deathworld series of books (minus the power holster). In practice, it really just overlapped the snub pistol in its niche within the game so I stopped using it.

Back in the early '80s when I was playing regularly, that is what we misinterpreted a Snub Pistol to be. ^*

^* - We must have looked at the description for Snub Pistol next to Accelerator Rifle In CT:Book 4 and our imagination unintentionally filled in the rocket propulsion for the snub round as well.
​

Since in CT a "Snub Pistol" was a revolver, and a "Combat Snub Pistol" was semi-automatic, whereas in MT a "Snub Revolver" was a revolver, and a "Snub Pistol" was semi-automatic, I came up with the following definitions:

Snub Revolver = Revolver Version (RAW)
Snub Pistol = Semi-automatic version (RAW)
Combat Snub Pistol = Gyrojet Version (as described above, since I liked the idea )
​

Two advantages a Gyrojet-type weapon might have are a longer range and (given the higher TL) the possibility of a homing projectile, since it has the rocket thrust to steer and adjust course for a time.

 

[CliffBates]

Could someone give the reference to where to find the Snub SMG. I thought I saw a graphic of it once, but then could not later find it. But where are the stats for it given?

 

[whulorigan]

Could someone give the reference to where to find the Snub SMG. I thought I saw a graphic of it once, but then could not later find it. But where are the stats for it given?

The first reference that I am aware of is Challenge Magazine #67, p.23.

 

[nobby-w]

Could someone give the reference to where to find the Snub SMG. I thought I saw a graphic of it once, but then could not later find it. But where are the stats for it given?

It was never published in any GDW material that I'm aware of, but does pop up in various people's homebrew 'verses from time to time. It might have been done for a later version (TNE maybe) but I'm not aware of it.

 

[whulorigan]

It was never published in any GDW material that I'm aware of, but does pop up in various people's homebrew 'verses from time to time. It might have been done for a later version (TNE maybe) but I'm not aware of it.

Challenge Magazine was published by GDW. Issue #67 (where it is found) is for the MT Era.

 

[Cdr Vimes]

The central supply catalogue for both T4 and MgT has them I believe.

 

[Travellerspud]

I have always thought "super paint ball gun" when I hear "snub pistol"....

tranq rounds have a skin-absorbing chemical that splatters...

chem rounds have a quick-vaporizing chemical that affects air breathers...

heap rounds are like miniature "squash" rounds (HESH) from WWII (HE charge flattens on surface before detonating, resulting in "spall" off the inner surface)

 

[Hyphen]

It was never published in any GDW material that I'm aware of, but does pop up in various people's homebrew 'verses from time to time. It might have been done for a later version (TNE maybe) but I'm not aware of it.

OK, I've *almost* got the table thingy to work (Wayne is correct about the source, BTW).

This is the MT version, as snipped from my Weapons tables (under Repair Bays/House Rules):

Snubmachinegun (10mm)**

TL	Aim DM*	Ammo Notes	Rnds	Pen / Atten	Dmg	Max Range	Close <1m	Short <3m	Med <45m	Long <300m	VLong <600m	Dist <1.5km	VDist <3km	SubR <50km	Auto Tgts	Dngr Spc	Sig	Recoil
10	+2	HE	40	1/-	4	45 m	1	1	1	--	--	--	--	--	2	1.5	Med	Med/R
10	+2	HEAP	40	6/-	4	45 m	6	6	6	--	--	--	--	--	2	1.5	Med	Med/R
10	+2	tranq	40	1/-	1	45 m	1	1	1	--	--	--	--	--	2	--	Med	Med/R
10	+2	gas	40	--	1	45 m	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	2	1.5	Med	Med/R

**Stats for these weapons are taken from:
PICK, Ken, "Personal Weapons", Challenge 67, GDW, Bloomington, IL, USA, 1993, pp 22-3.

 

[mike wightman]

In his new novel Agent of the Imperium MWM introduces us to the snub accelerator pistol...

 

[Geoff]

It was never published in any GDW material that I'm aware of, but does pop up in various people's homebrew 'verses from time to time. It might have been done for a later version (TNE maybe) but I'm not aware of it.

I had a "Snub carbine" in my games. Think M-1 carbine meets sawn off shotgun. I had it having a higher accuracy due to a longer barrel, and less G effect as it had more mass than the revolver. Which was the other thing I would let players have..

:rofl:

 

[Timerover51]

The U.S. Army assumes that 58 foot-pounds of energy is required to cause a casualty, incapacitating without necessarily being lethal. That does assume that the wound-causing agent penetrates the human body. If the energy is absorbed by protective equipment, then a casualty will not result.

While silver fulminate or mercury fulminate or lead azide will detonate with shock, tetryl will require a detonator of either mercury fulminate or lead azide or another initiator explosive.

DETONATOR. Tetryl is used in detonators, the tetryl being pressed into the bott om of the detonator shell and then covered with a small priming charge of mercury fulminate, lead azide, or other initiator.

The quote comes from TM 9-1900 Ammunition, General, June 1945, U. S. War Department.

The Japanese did develop, in World War 2, a fuselsss High-Explosive Incendiary round for weapons of caliber 7.7mm to 37mm, but it did use a blend of PETN and RDX along with an incendiary mixture, and was fired at a much higher velocity than the snub pistol.

That information comes from the United States Strategic Bombing Survey, Pacific War, Military Analysis Division, January 1947, Japanese Air Weapons and Tactics.

The problem with that round, and the idea of using mercury fulminate or something similar in the snub pistol is that the round is not going to be bore-safe, and if struck by a sudden blow, say another projectile hitting the snub pistol magazine or extra rounds carried on the person, will likely detonate.

 

[GypsyComet]

The problem with that round, and the idea of using mercury fulminate or something similar in the snub pistol is that the round is not going to be bore-safe, and if struck by a sudden blow, say another projectile hitting the snub pistol magazine or extra rounds carried on the person, will likely detonate.

Thanks to a combat in which my tranq equipped Snub failed to actually KO any of the targets I hit, we've always assumed/joked that Snub rounds have a definite shelf life.