So I own Traveller 5 but...

[JoelMB12]

I been reading the book 0 of mongoose Traveller it so much more approachable!! Should I give up on 5 and just move over to mongoose?

 

[aramis]

Mongoose is a very different game. Mongoose is easier to learn, but less robust a system. There are things to like about each.

 

[flykiller]

Should I give up on 5 and just move over to mongoose?

depends on how much time you want to put into it.

and also, what you want to do with that time. do you want to play the game, or play with the game?

 

[Condottiere]

If your sandbox is the Third Imperium, sure.

 

[mike wightman]

MgT offers a rule system that works. The second edition rulebook is really good.

 

[Jame]

MgT offers a rule system that works. The second edition rulebook is really good.

I've taken a look at it. It seems good though at the moment I plan to stick with 1e. Though mind that this is as much a money issue as it is anything else.

 

[Garnfellow]

I wouldn't say give up on T5, as I think there's lots of interesting material in there for my own uses. But in its current form I couldn't pull together a quorum of players willing to use it.

But if I were going to run a game tomorrow? MgT 2e all the way. Accessible, approachable, available.

 

[flykiller]

But in its current form I couldn't pull together a quorum of players willing to use it.

how much of it must be "used" by the players? surely the game referee does most of the "using"?

 

[DickNervous]

I also own T5, MgT1e, and MgT2e (at least what has been released so far) and went through the same decision process you are about 2 years ago when I started my campaign. I had not played Traveller since the CT days so I took a look at all the versions to determine which I wanted to use.

I quickly ruled out everything except CT, MgT1e, and T5 for a variety of reasons. The biggest ones are that they are all out of print (except GURPS, but I never liked the system) and that, quite honestly, I wasn't thrilled with the whole rebellion and virus timeline.

While I love CT, I also knew it's limitations and was using it as a baseline. So I bought the MgT core book and the T5 CD to check them out. Here is my short synopsis of them.

MgT is pretty much CT+. It builds upon what was in CT and adds to it, and the large majority of what it adds is good stuff. It uses the same setting (that I love) and felt vary familiar. There is a ton of extra materials from both Mongoose and 3PPs to allow you to go in any direction you can dream of in the Third Imperium setting, or one you create. The rules are pretty simple and straightforward to learn to get started.

From a referee standpoint, if you want to stay in the 3I setting, or something similar to it, Mongoose offers everything you need. In addition to the published books there are active communities online discussing it and creating stuff for it (here, at Mongoose, reddit, Facebook, and even Yahoo Groups). However, if you want to go beyond the 3I setting, and a 3PP hasn't published something similar to what you want to do, you may be doing a lot of trailblazing and homebrewing.

T5 on the other hand is a massive, robust, and comprehensive toolbox that will allow you to build pretty much anything you want, in any setting you want. It has tools and rules to build pretty much anything. Want to build a Gun, there is a "Maker" for that. Clones? Got you covered. New Sophonts? Can do! Vehicles? Check. Worlds? Check? Tech up to TL (I forget, but really high)... it's got it.

However, it is currently missing a robust setting, supplemental materials, and 3PP support. I use the analogy that T5 is similar to Bethesda giving you access to all the tools, widgets, and assets to build your own version of Skyrim or Fallout, with a 1 page set of directions. EXTREMELY POWERFUL, if you want to spend the time to figure it out. But not very approachable to first timers.

When I first looked at T5 it took me about 2 hours to figure out enough about how to roll a character to give it a try, and I totally got it wrong. Then once I did figure it out, I found that the original Rogue chargen was broken. T5 can be overwhelming to most people.

So I went with MgT because it was easier to figure out and introduce to new Traveller players and had a ton of supporting material. Besides, I could easily convert my CT stuff to MgT to recycle it.

 

[Garnfellow]

how much of it must be "used" by the players? surely the game referee does most of the "using"?

Not in my experience. Players want to understand the core mechanic, skills, and combat. My players picked up MgT and got the basics in 20 minutes. I don't know how long it would take them to do that with T5, because I've never seen anyone willing to put in the work.

I definitely couldn't hand out a few copies of T5 and walk them through character generation in a session. It would be a nightmare.

I could easily do that with MgT 2e. Have done that.

I like T5, but right now it's not easy for new players to pick up and play. Life is short, my time is limited, their time is limited, there are a crapton of great games with much lower RoI.

 

[flykiller]

I definitely couldn't hand out a few copies of T5 and walk them through character generation in a session. It would be a nightmare.

hm. instead of all at once, maybe in stages. a short pre-game leading to enlistment, then a short adventure for the first term, then another short adventure for the second term, etc.

"how do you eat an elephant?" "one bite at a time."

 

[flg]

hm. instead of all at once, maybe in stages. a short pre-game leading to enlistment, then a short adventure for the first term, then another short adventure for the second term, etc.

"how do you eat an elephant?" "one bite at a time."

Or just use MGT which is way easier and more understandable, and far less time will be wasted too.

 

[Garnfellow]

hm. instead of all at once, maybe in stages. a short pre-game leading to enlistment, then a short adventure for the first term, then another short adventure for the second term, etc.

"how do you eat an elephant?" "one bite at a time."

Why on Earth would I ever want to eat an elephant, when there are already so many tasty hamburgers all around me?

 

[flykiller]

(laugh) ok.

 

[JoelMB12]

The main downfall traveler 5 if it's a wealth of information and really great mechanics but completely unreadable to a novice of this game series. I'm a guy that loves lifepath systems and traveler 5 has a really interesting one in there somewhere it was explain more clearly. Mongoose with explain everything incredibly Clear Cleary.

 

[LeperColony]

I don't own T5 (yet), but everything I've read about it describes the book as directed very much at an audience already familiar with Traveller.

From the MgT materials I do have, I felt it was generally friendly to new players. I wouldn't say it's perfect by any means, but I would and have used it to run Traveller games.

 

[Spenser TR]

do you want to play the game, or play with the game?

For me, this insight says ( or asks ) it all. To mostly echo, I think the two versions appeal to very distinct audiences.

What's important to me and my situation - easy to make a roleplaying game emphasizing story happen, there at the table - makes Mongoose the clear choice.

Not only do I need to be able to parse the rules, I have to do it on the fly during the game at some point. I can improvise and handwave with the best of them, but I need to be able to use the rules while the game is happening i front of me. I very much enjoy the sheer breadth and depth of the available Mongoose material, as I also love ( most of ) the 3I setting. T5 can't fulfill these requirements for me.

On the other hand... the depth and power of guidance that T5 provides is staggering. There are tidbits in there that inform the setting, and bit by bit there are scattered resources that detail out the races and gear my players might use, but finding and collecting these is a lot of Google Fu, and paying attention here. If I want to flesh out a new race, or wander really far out into the weeds during char/NPC development, T5 is the system for that.

Playing -with- the game is interesting to me, and as I travel ( IRL ) T5 is very compelling as a system to learn, explore, and produce things with. But when I come to rest and actually run the next campaign, it'll be with the Mongoose materials.

 

[flykiller]

do you want to play the game, or play with the game?

For me, this insight says ( or asks ) it all. To mostly echo, I think the two versions appeal to very distinct audiences.

(not my insight, been around for a while, think whipsnade first articulated it.)

 

[Garnfellow]

There is an interesting discussion going in the D&D community right now about "Lonely Fun," basically solo game activities that happen in and around live RPG sessions.

Here's a piece from one recent essay, "How the end of lonely fun leads to today’s trickle of D&D books". The theory here is that in the 80s and 90s, the neverending stream of gaming supplements were supposed to keep players deeply engaged in the game between sessions. They read setting books, they made new monsters or drew maps, rolled up characters using new rule options.

In those days, gaming used to be what D&D boss Mike Mearls called “a hobby of not playing the game you wanted to play.” Fate designer Fred Hicks calls time spent creating characters or reading game books “lonely fun.”

And supposedly, no one has time or interest for lonely fun anymore, so D&D has scaled waaaaay back on supplements.

In many ways, Traveller is the ultimate "lonely fun" RPG. Character gen, world gen, ship design: these can all be incredibly engrossing solo activities, and with the addition of various makers T5 is in some ways the apotheosis of these subsystems.

MgT 2e, in contrast, is very much in the modern spirit of being accessible and easy to run "out of the box."

An underlying premise to many of these discussions, and one that I reject, is that these "lonely fun" activities are somehow not really fun or less worthy than live game sessions.

Now, I love getting together with a group, I love interacting and being surprised by other players.

But I have also gotten a lot of enjoyment and satisfaction out of the solitary stuff, as well. I certainly would rather play around with worldgen than fiddle with some phone game.

 

[robject]

I don't own T5 (yet), but everything I've read about it describes the book as directed very much at an audience already familiar with Traveller.

From the MgT materials I do have, I felt it was generally friendly to new players. I wouldn't say it's perfect by any means, but I would and have used it to run Traveller games.

I think both of these are correct.

The T5 Core Rules are a reference book, and it's a reference book for people who know Traveller. It's canon law.

Mongoose Traveller is easy for newbies to pick up and play. It's evangelical.