Space stations
- Thread starter parmasson
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The Oz
SOC-14 1K
FASA did the "Eshpair" class 500dton orbital facility as one of their Adventure Class deckplans. Several versions of an Interdiction Station have been published in various adventures or magazine articles.
CT Adventure #11 "Murder on Arcturus Station" has partial deckplans for the station that is the setting for the mystery.
Most of the Traveller space stations I've seen have not been the classic spinning wheel but rather designs that relied on artificial gravity.
CT Adventure #11 "Murder on Arcturus Station" has partial deckplans for the station that is the setting for the mystery.
Most of the Traveller space stations I've seen have not been the classic spinning wheel but rather designs that relied on artificial gravity.
For the spinning wheel design, would you not just want have a larger version of the CT/MT Lab Ship to fit the bill. Other space stations can be found on the HDI website as their deckplans are Traveller Approved/Compatible.
I am sure Stellar Reaches at this very moment is working on deckplans to match that wonderful article they had on Deep Space Stations.
Last source that I could think of surely either SJG or Cargonaught must have done something on orbital starports which is just another name for a Lagrange station.
Here is a question for the board gearhead/physicists: Is it possible to have a Lagrange system when the planet does not have a satellite/moon?
I am sure Stellar Reaches at this very moment is working on deckplans to match that wonderful article they had on Deep Space Stations.
Last source that I could think of surely either SJG or Cargonaught must have done something on orbital starports which is just another name for a Lagrange station.
Here is a question for the board gearhead/physicists: Is it possible to have a Lagrange system when the planet does not have a satellite/moon?
From what I understand of the system doesn’t a LaGrange point need to be between two bodies? Earth-Moon, Earth-Sun. If we had no moon then it has to be Earth-Sun I think. I am sure Malenfant could give a better answer. 
This link has the big math but it also has some pretty pictures for the rest of us. Caution it is a PDF file.
Big Math PDF
This link has the big math but it also has some pretty pictures for the rest of us. Caution it is a PDF file.
Big Math PDF
Jeff M. Hopper
SOC-14 1K
All a LaGrange point needs is a two-body system with one orbitting another. The Trojan Points of the Jupiter-Sun system are considered LaGrange points.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
I think Employee 2-4601 has mentioned a space station before that he was working on. You might try searching the boards here for space station.
Sadly, I possess not the skills of a cartographer, and so am dependent on these good people to provide said deckplans, if they would be so inclined.
So, if you like making deckplans and want a challenge, try designing a set for the Deep Space Station described in Stellar Reaches,Issue #2. Your work could potentially be included in a future issue of the fanzine.
This public service announcement has been brought to you by the letters "SR",
Flynn
I need a little physics back up . . .
The station is going to be a spinning wheel station, a fairly big one. I am thinking two miles around the outside of the wheel and 1200 feet or so across. I am thinking five to six decks deep with an open air area in the top (inside) deck. How fast (RPM) would it have to spin to generate 1g and how much would that decrease the closer you got to the center. Is there a rule of thumb that I can apply?
The station is going to be a spinning wheel station, a fairly big one. I am thinking two miles around the outside of the wheel and 1200 feet or so across. I am thinking five to six decks deep with an open air area in the top (inside) deck. How fast (RPM) would it have to spin to generate 1g and how much would that decrease the closer you got to the center. Is there a rule of thumb that I can apply?
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Actually, 1200 foot diameter would yield a 2/3 mile circumference (pi*r2, ya know).
At 600 ft radius, you would need to rotate the outer surface at 95mph to get 1g!
The only rule of thumb would be the formula:
Ar = V^2 / r
where Ar = g (in ft/sec^2 or whatever system you use), V = speed of the spot, and r = radius to that spot.
Edit Grumble, grumble, these mumble, mumble slow keys. end edit
At 600 ft radius, you would need to rotate the outer surface at 95mph to get 1g!
The only rule of thumb would be the formula:
Ar = V^2 / r
where Ar = g (in ft/sec^2 or whatever system you use), V = speed of the spot, and r = radius to that spot.
Edit Grumble, grumble, these mumble, mumble slow keys. end edit
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
DGP's MT era adventure 'Corsairs of the Flaming Eye'? Has within it the cutaway plans or the orbital space staion of Liiminii, a system in Vland sector, dressing out at 1 Mega tons. Side view only, however.
FYI, if you can get a copy, do so.
Ty, and a good gaming day to you all!
FYI, if you can get a copy, do so.
Ty, and a good gaming day to you all!
Shadowdancer
SOC-14 1K
The game Cyberpunk 2020 has two supplements, Deep Space, and (I think) Near Orbit, which have plans and other info for space stations.
Poor writing on my part. What I meant to say was a two mile circumference with a radius of about 2/3 of a mile producing something close to 1g. The decks are supposed to be 1200' across. Thanks to the post from Piper I know that I need to keep it under two RPM to keep people from tossing their cookies.
If you are using squirrel cage centrifuges you have another limitation: motion sickness.
Most sources suggest that, for the comfort of the general public, you need to keep the rotation to 1 rpm or less. 3 rpm causes brief nausea in most people and constant nausea in some people.
At 1 RPM your 1200 foot across station maxes out with an accelleration of 6.5 ft/sec^2, or 1/5g. To get 1 g you need to move a little faster than 2 rpm, and hope your residents have strong stomachs.
Most sources suggest that, for the comfort of the general public, you need to keep the rotation to 1 rpm or less. 3 rpm causes brief nausea in most people and constant nausea in some people.
At 1 RPM your 1200 foot across station maxes out with an accelleration of 6.5 ft/sec^2, or 1/5g. To get 1 g you need to move a little faster than 2 rpm, and hope your residents have strong stomachs.
This ^ indicates that the next number is an exponent, so 2^2 is 2 squared.Originally posted by Parmasson:
Man I am in over my head! I am don't now what "^" is asking me to do in Ar = V^2 / r =
Perhaps the question I should ask is how big does it need to be to get my 1-1.5 rpm?
[edit] 4 miles = 1rpm?
Ca = 0.011 * Cr^2 * Cl
Cl = Ca / (0.011 * Cr^2)
Cr = sqrt( Ca / (0.011 * Cl))
where
Ca = centrifugal artificial gravity acceleration at point X (m/s^2)
(This is where you calculate or enter the desired gravity; 1.0 g is 9.81 m/s)
Cl = distance from point X to the center of rotation (m)
(This is the radius of the station.)
Cr = rotation rate at point X (rotations per minute)
I get a radius of about 891 meters = 0.55 miles for 1 G equivalent at 1 RPM.
396 meters = 0.25 miles at 1.5 RPM
Fair warning; any time you see me post math, double check the numbers.
Edit: Or, even better, this page has a graph.
Edit: re-checked my math
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
This has got me thinking and a quick google hasn't turned up my idea on this but maybe someone here has seen it somewhere.
What about rather than a wheel with the spin gravity perpendicular to radial you turn it (not quite) 90 degrees. In effect rather than a long single level in a circle your gravity is a series of floors arranged around the center of spin. Like a skyscraper, only after you get to the Nth+1 floor you find yourself back at the 1st floor, if you follow. A diagram would make this so easy to see but I have no quick doodle handy.
Would you be able to make the radius smaller and the rotation faster by turning the floor in this way. In effect what you experience is direct thrust rather than centripital thrust, I think. There would be some centripital to counter (hence my "not quite" 90 degrees for the floors) but intuitively I think I can see this working.
Or is it time to take a nap
After a little second thought I think maybe it won't work but I can't quite get the old gray matter to concentrate and figure it out, long day.
One interesting note I did find while googling is a research paper that notes the minimum open floor space and minimum total floor space for long duration space habitats. Note it is area rather than volume since with gravity it is area that matters. An important concept for Traveller perhaps. At least it makes the stateroom allowances seem too small almost or at the very least quite reasonable. The requirements in the article are 8m2 open area per crew member and 40m2 total area per crew member. It doesn't say but I imagine a part of that is work space. Still the 8m2 of open area per crewmember is about the size of a Traveller stateroom (as half of the 4 dTons, 2 dTons being 3m x 3m = 9m2). I found it interesting.
What about rather than a wheel with the spin gravity perpendicular to radial you turn it (not quite) 90 degrees. In effect rather than a long single level in a circle your gravity is a series of floors arranged around the center of spin. Like a skyscraper, only after you get to the Nth+1 floor you find yourself back at the 1st floor, if you follow. A diagram would make this so easy to see but I have no quick doodle handy.
Would you be able to make the radius smaller and the rotation faster by turning the floor in this way. In effect what you experience is direct thrust rather than centripital thrust, I think. There would be some centripital to counter (hence my "not quite" 90 degrees for the floors) but intuitively I think I can see this working.
Or is it time to take a nap
After a little second thought I think maybe it won't work but I can't quite get the old gray matter to concentrate and figure it out, long day.
One interesting note I did find while googling is a research paper that notes the minimum open floor space and minimum total floor space for long duration space habitats. Note it is area rather than volume since with gravity it is area that matters. An important concept for Traveller perhaps. At least it makes the stateroom allowances seem too small almost or at the very least quite reasonable. The requirements in the article are 8m2 open area per crew member and 40m2 total area per crew member. It doesn't say but I imagine a part of that is work space. Still the 8m2 of open area per crewmember is about the size of a Traveller stateroom (as half of the 4 dTons, 2 dTons being 3m x 3m = 9m2). I found it interesting.
If I follow you, you're suggesting floors nearly parallel to the spin axis and using the rotation thrust to add to the centripetal force?
If I'm indeed following you, it seems that the rotation speed would have to pretty high to add much.
The workspace data is interesting. T2300 has crew quality versus hab size figures in it. I'll have to check those out and see how they handled it.
Thanks!
If I'm indeed following you, it seems that the rotation speed would have to pretty high to add much.
The workspace data is interesting. T2300 has crew quality versus hab size figures in it. I'll have to check those out and see how they handled it.
Thanks!
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