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Star Trek: STNG: Poker: Stakes

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RainOfSteel

SOC-14 1K
On more than one occasion, ST has tried to have us believe that the Federation has eliminated money. STC had "Catspaw", and when Kirk is offered mounds of valuable gems, he laughs it off, saying he could manufacture them in bulk (but his attitude is that "money doesn't matter"). DS9 had one episode centered on it, and referred to it a few times.

In STNG, there are many poker scenes with the regular cast attending. They seemed pretty serious about the game. Including the super-serious Wharf (In the Binar episode from 1st Season, Wharf says, "But Commander, if winning doesn't matter, then why keep score," with a straight face).

In all these poker scenes, they are all seen to be betting with something.

What is this? Meaningless score-keeping counters? Non-federation money? Anyone have any good ideas or know of any official or quasi-official word on the matter?
 
In mudd's women dilithium crystals are said to be worth their weight in diamonds and they are being mined. gotta have a real value to be mined in the middle of nowhere. Plus, in a star trek rp game I seem to remember seeing a pay grade scale somewhere. You see them shopping in the first empisode...so I think they use some sort of credit but with various script writer doing all the work they screw up once in a while. Sorta "in my version the future is so perfect they don't use money...so there!" while the next writer then puts in the poker game ...I think it's just the writers screwing up.
 
I think that all the talk about the Federation not using money comes from the viewpoint that Starfleet personel are not in Starfleet for the modest pay or money allocation, i.e. not greedy but for the personal satisfaction of doing a good job exploring the galaxy and defending the Federation. There are a bunch of episodes where there are references to a specie based market economy in the Federation.
The crew are betting in the poker games their money allocation used to buy goods from a merchant they might encounter.
 
There is definitely lots of money being bet in Quark's on DS9. Mostly in "slips of Latanum." So some things obviously have value. And Starfleet personell have some form of monetary allowance and do bet at Quark's. If money has no value then gambling for money would go away. Though there are always other, sometimes bigger stakes.
 
IIRC the Federation doesn't use money (antimatter = unlimited energy, energy + replicator = whatever you need), but many other races do. (Yes, even those with antimatter and replicators...)
 
In ST: First Contact, Picard is telling Lily, the woman from the past, that money doesn't exist in the 24th century. I think what he meant was that moeny doesn't exist in the Federation. Gold-pressed Latinum is a Ferengi currency.

Dameon
 
StarTrek, like Traveller, doesn't(?) have a few inconsistencies in it's background and development. Realistically there has to be a specie based economy in StarTrek's Federation, it couldn't operate without one. People might not be driven to accumulate wealth in the 24th C. like those in the past (they are not the greedy, rail baron, oil baron capitalists of the 19th and 20th-21st C.) but the method of monetary exchange has to be based on specie (or inefficient barter, yeah right). Picard is wrong, mistaken (too idealistic to realize the truth) and has his head so far up his behind that lump in his throat is his nose.

Andrew,
Antimatter does not exist in a natural state anywhere in our galaxy (at least as we know now and our lack of finding huge caches of it means it will be rare finds in the future should it exist naturally someplace). Antimatter has to be manufactured, probably in fusion powered particle accelerators where it (a few grams at a time) is collected, stored then shipped to Starfleet to use in their ships. That procress ain't cheap (and IMO is really too expensive to justify the use of antimatter-matter power in starships) to build and use. There has to be some sort of currency in ST, not everybody is willing to work for free, accepting the quarters SF assigns them to live in. What about those extremely dangerous jobs? Are there people lining up to do them just for job satisfaction? I think not.
 
Electronic money does fit the milieu of Star Trek, doesn't it? Some form of specie would be needful for dealing with 'non-enlightened' (ie nonsocialist) cultures like Ferengi, Klingons, Cardassians and such.

It does beg the question "What was Riker and crew gambling for when they played poker?"
 
Can't we just say Picard lied to other people when he was talking about money. After all the poker stakes, gold press latium, credites, etc.
OR the fact that ST never worried about last week's show but what was the entertaining/ message this week.
 
"That procress ain't cheap (and IMO is really too expensive to justify the use of antimatter-matter power in starships) to build and use."

The fact that it is used for that implies they've found a more efficient way of creating it. In any case, they've got fusion reactors which are nearly as good.
 
Originally posted by jasper:
Can't we just say Picard lied to other people when he was talking about money. After all the poker stakes, gold press latium, credites, etc.
OR the fact that ST never worried about last week's show but what was the entertaining/ message this week.
Click to expand...
Perhaps they were all simply using colored chips with differing values like "Monopoly" (TM) money. Each player was given a certain amount and played until one person had the most. Each game would start fresh from scratch. No one actually keeps the money they win?
 
Even if there is no "money" (currency), people will find a way to create money (items with an agreed-upon value) -- cigarettes in prison, etc. (My brother-in-law is a prison guard. At their prison, smoking is prohibited, so the inmates use little cans of potted meat as currency.)

In Star Trek, maybe they were betting jobs or shift assignments, or vouchers for leave time while in port, or drink coupons from 10 Forward, or time in the holodeck.

I think Picard in "First Contact" meant that they didn't need money to buy survival essentials, such as housing, medicine and food. So people are free to spend their money on whatever luxury items/hobby pursuits they choose.
 
yes indeed, sorry for the mis-spelling of her name but i would admit that I would play a few hands of poker for a chance at a date with the counsellor.

not to derail but i thought the doctor was a cutey also.
 
well data is fully functional and knowledgable in all forms of eroticism.

wierd question though.. would having it on with data be considered homosexual since he isnt technically a male?

 
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