starport imperium space or not

[jasper]

Okay I slighlty confused.
If you at a starport inside imperium territory it is consider imperium space?
Correct yes no
Now if I was in Old Worlds borders and the planet had a class A starport and Navy base the starport is consider Imperium space, Old World space, or planet space?

The Navy base would be either Imperial, Old Worlds, or local?

 

[far-trader]

In my opinion its all dependant on the allegiance code (if the UPP lists it).

If the world is listed as Imperial (Im) or a Client State (Cs) of the Imperium, then the Starport and any Bases are Imperial.

If the world is not listed as Im or Cs then any Starport or Bases are property of the listed allegiance.

Some other allegiance codes:

As - Aslan
Da - Darrian
Dr - Droyne
Fa - Federation of Arden
Na - Non-aligned
So - Solomani
Sw - Sword Worlds
Va - Vargr
Ve - Vegan
Zh - Zhodani Consulate

 

[jasper]

Thanks.

 

[jatay3]

A. a starport run directly by the imperium is under imperial law outside the ex line it is run by the subordinate government who runs the planet.

B. a starport run by said planet is under said planets law

 

[jatay3]

A. a starport run directly by the imperium is under imperial law outside the ex line it is run by the subordinate government who runs the planet.

B. a starport run by said planet is under said planets law

...............

therefore C. starport in situation A. is "Imperial Space" directly. In B. indirectly(the Imperium is overlord but not direct ruler).

 

[Ben W Bell]

Generally speaking the main starport on a world is Imperial, and other starports are planetary.

 

[Malenfant]

Far Trader is right, I'd say.

If you're within Imperial borders or within the borders of a Client State, then the Starport is Imperial territory, and outside the ex line is covered by local law.

If you're beyond Imperial borders then the starport and the surrounding territory usually belong to the polity that the planet is a member of, and the territory around that is covered by local law.

Though this does beg the question of whether other races have the same extraterritoriality laws as the Imperium. I could see some cases whether the planet may own the starport, for example. Or where the entire planet is considered the property of the occupying power.

 

[Shadowdancer]

Originally posted by jatay3:
A. a starport run directly by the imperium is under imperial law outside the ex line it is run by the subordinate government who runs the planet.

B. a starport run by said planet is under said planets law

...............

therefore C. starport in situation A. is "Imperial Space" directly. In B. indirectly(the Imperium is overlord but not direct ruler).

I don't think that is correct. Everything I've read in Traveller says that for Imperial worlds, the starport is considered Imperial territory, and Imperial law applies inside the XT line, no matter who runs the starport.

 

[Ben W Bell]

Originally posted by Paraquat Johnson:
I don't think that is correct. Everything I've read in Traveller says that for Imperial worlds, the starport is considered Imperial territory, and Imperial law applies inside the XT line, no matter who runs the starport.

Only the main starport, as far as I have read.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

Having different starports controlled by different people (and perhaps having different laws, tax rates, etc) could cause a lot of problems. I think the Imperium would insist that all interstellar traffic goes via Imperial starports. Spaceports (for in-system travel) are probably locally-controlled.

 

[Glen Allen Mcinnes]

And then theirs the issue of the extraterotoraility of starports in impiral space as they fall under imperial and not law ,although the imperium dose like to acomadate the local athourites where posible and practical, most likily apart from a few nominal token impireals (maby even rucuted from the local popluasion) lower popluasion/traffic worlds would be adminstrated on the imperiums behalf by local athourites as stated by Paraquat Johnson.

 

[Wayne]

Far Traders said

In my opinion its all dependant on the allegiance code (if the UPP lists it).

If the world is listed as Imperial (Im) or a Client State (Cs) of the Imperium, then the Starport and any Bases are Imperial.

If the world is not listed as Im or Cs then any Starport or Bases are property of the listed allegiance.

And Malenfant said

If you're within Imperial borders or within the borders of a Client State, then the Starport is Imperial territory, and outside the ex line is covered by local law.

If you're beyond Imperial borders then the starport and the surrounding territory usually belong to the polity that the planet is a member of, and the territory around that is covered by local law.

I agree with them to a point

If the world is listed as Imperial (Im) or a Client State (Cs) of the Imperium, then the Bases are Imperial.

If the world is listed as Imperial (Im) then the Starport is Imperial.

If the world is listed as a Client State (Cs) of the Imperium, then the Starport is controlled by then Client State (is covered by local law).

 

[Malenfant]

I'm not really sure what happens in the case of a Client State. I'd assume the starport was Imperial territory still.

Then again, I'm not even sure what a Client State really *is*. Is it sorta like a colony? Is there a realworld equivalent here on Earth today?

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Wolfman:
<snippage>

If the world is listed as a Client State (Cs) of the Imperium, then the Starport is controlled by then Client State (is covered by local law).

Hmm, interesting. You know you have half convinced me Wolfman. Half in that I think applying that to some cases might be right, or in some cases it might be a shared control. Thanks for the different viewpoint, me likes it!

 

[Wayne]

US Virgin Islands come to mind, or the small Caribbean island (don’t know the name, but here about them every winter) that wants to become a part of Canada (and has been trying scenes the 70s) for realworld.

My view is that a Client State is an n independent world that looks to the Imperium to protect it, but does not what to be a part of the Imperium just yet.

Some cynical people would say that Canada is a Client State of the US.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
I'm not really sure what happens in the case of a Client State. I'd assume the starport was Imperial territory still.

Then again, I'm not even sure what a Client State really *is*. Is it sorta like a colony? Is there a realworld equivalent here on Earth today?

Its always been my understanding* that a Client State was the nomenclature for systems not yet fully under Imperial rule but hoping to be someday. What Imperial rule encompases is another matter and how much of that you have while a Client State another yet. In real world terms it might be a little like the relationship of Guam and the U.S. in some cases.

* Up till now at least, see my reply to Wolfman which has me thinking again

 

[alanb]

I tend not to assign Client State any formal meaning, and just treat it as a catch-all term for "close Imperial ally", particularly ones with a certain degree of dependence on the Imperium.

I don't generally use it for worlds that are going to be incorporated into the Imperium, since the Imperium is expanding slowly, if at all, in most of the periods when I use it.

Starports, then, vary according to circumstances.

If a world is about to join the Imperium, it is quite likely that the Imperium would have taken over running its starport.

If a world can only maintain a starport with Imperial assistance, it is likely that the Imperium is running it.

If a world can run a starport by itself, it is quite likely to do so without Imperial assistance, thank you very much.

We should note that canonical client states include some quite hi-tech worlds with large populations. There are even suggestions of multi-world polities being client states, even though that doesn't show up in their allegiance codes.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Wolfman:
US Virgin Islands come to mind, or the small Caribbean island (don’t know the name, but here about them every winter) that wants to become a part of Canada (and has been trying scenes the 70s) for realworld.

Yep those occured to me too, but like you I couldn't quite nail the name of the Canadian one

I finally had to google it:

http://www.aplaceinthesun.ca/index.phtml

Originally posted by Wolfman:
My view is that a Client State is an n independent world that looks to the Imperium to protect it, but does not what to be a part of the Imperium just yet.

Interesting again. I always figured it was either voluntary and desired by the system or involuntary and imposed by the Imperium for strategic reasons.

Originally posted by Wolfman:
Some cynical people would say that Canada is a Client State of the US.

Color, er colour me a RED, WHITE (and blue) cynic

Sadly (to a degree) Canada is defined largely by and in comparison to our neighbours (largely) to the south. I don't see it (yet) as a bad thing despite some bad times, but this is getting a little off topic. Right, time for the old ObTrav dodge

ObTrav, well the Canada/U.S. relationship could be a good model for one Client State relationship I guess

Maybe along an allied border. The system was originally a colony of a now allied polity (Britain). Later it declared its independance and is recently a de facto Client State of the Imperium (U.S.). One day it may be a fully Imperial system.

 

[Malenfant]

Well, I've lived here in Canada for over a year and all I've seen are people saying that they're absolutely nothing like the nation south of the border and don't particularly want to be either

.

I certainly wouldn't say that Canada is anywhere remotely near being a Client State of the US. Now, Guam (maybe Puerto Rico too?) and the US I can see that being the case for.

 

[kafka47]

Israel is the classic Client State of the United States during a time of relative peace with South Vietnam being the classic example during wartime.

Although, the Ancients got their inspiration from Rome...the Imperium also resembles the post-Westphallian system much more.