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Starship combat encounters

stofsk

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This may have been done before and if so I apologise, but I am curious what people's experiences are with regards to the way T20 handles starship combat.

It's been a long, long time since I've played T20. Even then, I don't think I've ever played a starship combat encounter. What is everyone's thoughts on running an encounter? Do the rules work as written, or do they need house-ruling?

Hopefully there are still some of you that still play T20. I'd love to hear about any gameplay experiences you'd like to share. And if a debate forms, all the better! :)
 
Sort of ship to ship combat

Generally speaking, rolling a d20 with modifiers versus 2d6 with modifiers makes the combat take a few extra rounds depending on the tactical situation. The following is a long example:

Three of the four PCs were helping the patron search an underwater complex while the pilot flew the party's Scout Courier as an over watch for the support vessel; a low tech ~100 ton ocean freighter. The pilot spots an approaching ocean vessel of the same size and calls in the contact. The support vessel requests fire support in case the new vessel is hostile; of course it was! The attacking vessel was armed with mortars and with some very lucky dice rolls, quickly disabled the support vessel.

Unfortunately, the pilot did not have Gunnery skill (big Neg. Modification to rolls), but he locked on the attacker and fired a salvo of three missiles from his one turret. All three missed, he fired again and missed with three more missiles (an amazing display of very bad ‘to hit’ rolls began). At this point the unarmed support craft is nearly sunk and the attacker has no way to strike or escape the starship so it concentrates on raking the water with heavy machine gun fire to kill the survivors who began to abandon ship from the support vessel.

The frustrated pilot decided to flip the scout courier so the turret was then is facing the surface and tried his best to fire straight down like an ortillary barrage. These last three missiles all fail to strike the target AND the Gunnery counsel is telling the pilot he has emptied the turret’s auto loader capacity. The pilot set the ship for a basic 10 km circle at 500 feet, and headed for the cargo hold. He proceeded to manhandle the last two Explosive missiles and a Sand Canister up to the turret. From the Gunner’s couch he fired the next salvo and missed. The support vessel was screaming for help, the PCs on the ocean floor were losing their minds and the pilot began contemplating the possibility of ramming the attacking surface.

Back to the cargo hold he went for three more Sand Canisters, he fired and managed to hit the attacker twice. The Sand was incapable of disabling the attacker. However, one of the mortar crews and the light mortar were scoured off the decks. Unfortunately, the heavy machine gun and the other mortar were still punishing the stricken support vessel.

The pilot makes two more trips and loads the last four Sand Canisters into the turret auto loader system and decided to fire two rounds at a time till he was empty. He scored one hit and damaged the bridge but did not disable the vessel or its ability to attack. With the remaining two rounds of Sand he managed to destroy the last mortar.

At this point the attacker begins to steam away firing its heavy machine gun in the general direction of the Scout ship. Meanwhile the support vessel has now sunk and the surviving crew, all 17 of them are in inflatable life rafts.

The pilot has the skill set for a recue mission and the dice provide exceptionable success for the maneuver to place the Scout near enough to the life rafts for them to paddle over board the starship. Luckily, the Pilot also had First Aid skills and medical supplies on hand and was able to save the lives of two of the seriously injured survivors.

Then it was a simple matter of taking the Scout down to the ocean floor, docking with the complex in order to extract the PCs and the patron.

The Pilot said that was the longest and most dificult combat he had ever role (roll) played in 15 yearsof gaming.
 
Maybe the party should have had someone manning the turrets with gunnery? :)

How much did not having gunnery as a skill affect the rolls?

That's an interesting combat encounter, because the attacking ship really had no way of damaging the scout courier (lucky shot from a mortar? very unlikely I would think...) but the scout couldn't hit it due to the pilot not being able to properly calculate a firing solution. I am pretty sure you could use T/Computer to let the computer roll it (probably not at a penalty as well).
 
I was thinking about how gunnery could be improved last night before bed, here are some of the ideas I've come up with.

For point defence versus missiles: opposed gunnery checks.

As it stands, the rules on pp.163 say that the point defence laser gets: 1d20 + Gunnery skill + (Computer USP) + Weapon USP

While the missile gets: 16 + Weapon USP

This doesn't make sense to me. For a start, 16 is non-standard d20 mechanic. As far as AC is usually calculated, you have 10 + whatever. So it seems arbitrary. This by itself wouldn't be a bad thing, but then why doesn't the missile take advantage of the fact that it was fired with a target lock and firing solution? Why doesn't the gunner's skill roll when he fired the missile give it greater survivability to achieve its mission?

So I thought: wouldn't it be better to have opposed gunnery skill checks instead? Enemy gunner rolls his gunnery skill to determine what sort of firing solution the missiles get when they locked on to the target and were fired out of the tube. To defeat them, the defending point defence gunner needs to designate the incoming targets and assign them in order of priority, hence the roll of the gunnery skill.

The problem with gunnery as a skill is that it's used as an attack, which is wrong IMO. A level 5 gunner can specialise in the skill, spend every point he has in it, and come up with +8 ranks, +2 for skill focus, ability modifier (the rules say Wisdom but I can see Intelligence or Education subbing in for it, YMMV) that can add another 1 or 2 or more to it, and with PMOS and Heavy Metal being the other feats this hypothetical gunner takes, and maybe even Weapon Focus: Ship's Weapons for a +1, you have a total skill rank of over 10 and you can take 10 as well. Meaning a ship has to have an AC of over 20 to be safe from a level 5 gunner that's specialised in his trade (and you can see the Imperial Navy fielding specialists for this role, and the higher NonComs would be around level 5). The incoming missile has no chance IMO to even hit a target like a humble Patrol Cruiser.

What if instead, it's a BAB + Wis/Int/Edu (whichever is more appropriate) + (Computer USP) + Weapon USP + a bonus from a gunnery roll, and a bonus from say tactical leadership from whoever's the captain. On pp.160, a pilot can roll to make evasive manoeuvres, with the results 11-20 give a +1 to AC, 21-28 a +2, 29-33 a +3, 34-38 a +4, and over 39 a +5. Why not have the same thing for gunnery? That way that level 5 gunner is still boss, but not overwhelmingly so - he can take 10 and reliably get a +2, or if he wants to chance it he has a 50/50 chance of getting at least an 11, maybe higher if he rolls a 19 or 20 (10% chance), which might bump that +2 up to +3 or even +4 depending on what his modifiers were. Only the very best of gunners, with the best of luck, can get a +5 (same goes for pilots as per the evasive manoeuvres action) Starship ACs aren't that high to begin with, with SDBs being the sole exception. Most ACs are under 20, and civilian ships are 10-12 with almost no exception. The incoming missile or missiles, let's assume three missiles fired from a TL13 triple turret, would have an AC of 16+3=19. So under the current system, nothing is safe from a level 5 navy gunner with PMOS as his ally in a fight. Under the proposed alternative, that level 5 gunner is still fearsome, but not in a 'game over, man' sort of way.

You're a navy gunner, in a beam laser triple turret on a Patrol Cruiser. Let's assume that's a TL13 laser, so the USP goes up by +1. A triple beam laser turret will have a USP of +4. The Type T has a model/3 computer, so add +3 (safe bet to assume Gunner Interact is a program onboard Navy ships, they may even have Predict, so that's another +2 from computer aid). The bonus is already +7-9. Assuming the Captain is half-way decent, he'll have Ship's Tactics as a feat - add whatever Wisdom or Intelligence bonus the Captain has to the roll. By now, it could be +10 or more. Adding BAB doesn't seem so big a deal, even if Navy has a slow BAB progression, but you can house rule that by giving Navy the same BAB progression as Army (which at level 5 is a difference of +1), or take the Martial Training feat if you don't want to house rule, but the point is it doesn't matter as much. You can already, reliably, hit any civilian ship even if it's attempting evasive manoeuvres. A Far Trader has an AC of 10. So does a Corsair. Unless you have Han Solo piloting it evasive manoeuvres aren't going to amount for much when bonuses alone allow you to hit it. It's for the combat ships you need those heavy bonuses.

So what do you do agains that SDB with its AC of 30? Well a Patrol Cruiser is going to have tough time regardless, but you have four gunners on board, two of which will be manning missiles, the other two will be manning the lasers. So use battery fire, with one gunner being the lead and the other using the 'aid another' action. That level 5 gunner will have a BAB of +2, maybe +3 if you house ruled it so that Navy and Army have the same BAB progression, or +3 if martial training was taken as a feat. Let's assume some kind of positive bonus from an ability +1 or +2. Missile battery will be +4, Computer will be +3 or +5 if predict is enabled. Captain's tactics might give another +1 or more. The assisting gunner can aid the lead gunner, with a +2 to the gunnery roll. As stated above, with PMOS, the lead gunner can reliably get +2, if he chances it, it could go as high as +4 depending on how many modifiers can be added to the roll. Maybe he also has weapon focus: starship weapons, so for thrills add another +1. (we're talking about a specialist career path here, and a human at level 5 in Navy would have 6 feats to choose from)

So that would be a range of +13-17, and certain assumptions have been made (like a modest +1 or +2 ability modifer from both the gunner and captain providing tactics). It's evidently doable to hit a SDB even with an AC of 30 if you roll really well. The difference between the missile and beam laser assuming everything else is equal, is +1 USP for the beam laser. Now, damaging the SDB is another matter entirely, but that's why the Navy gets nuclear missiles to play with. ^_~

That's to hit a target. If you're defending from a missile attack, take the roll that was made by the attacker to hit you, and that's the target to beat in a point-defence laser attack on the missile. If you don't hit, you miss, and the missile hits you instead. Obviously the examples I've used assume a level 5 Navy specialist gunner. Merchies won't have these kind of bonuses. Marines or Mercs would have a higher BAB, but would they select any of the gunnery feats and spend valuable skill points on pumping gunnery when other skills and feats would arguably be more useful for their profession? On the other hand Rogues who moonlight as corsairs or Scouts who need to look after themselves could spend a feat or two on gunnery. But they wouldn't necessarily need to, because they don't have the organisational or career requirements to be expert gunners. But a Navy petty officer who has joined the gunnery branch? You bet your balls he will be given training up the wazoo to be the best damn gunner he can be, because that's how the Navy wins fights.

Some might say this is overly complicated, but I honestly don't think it's anymore complicated than what is already a mechanic in the book (that of the pilot taking evasive manoeuvres action) and I think it makes more sense. What do you guys think?
 
Maybe the party should have had someone manning the turrets with gunnery? :)

How much did not having gunnery as a skill affect the rolls?

That's an interesting combat encounter, because the attacking ship really had no way of damaging the scout courier (lucky shot from a mortar? very unlikely I would think...) but the scout couldn't hit it due to the pilot not being able to properly calculate a firing solution. I am pretty sure you could use T/Computer to let the computer roll it (probably not at a penalty as well).

The lack of the Gunnery Feat was the main sticking point. However, as time dragged on I started removing some of the negative DMs due to repeated use and the Pilot trying to use the ship's computer to assist with the attack rolls. All of the Pilot's attack rolls were pure drek; yet his piloting checks were high rolls including a natural 20! This combat was simply a display a very poor dice rolls.

The same group ran into an ambush (mugging attempt) in a back alley. The Nobel has the only projectile weapon, his high quality Magnum Revovler but he draws his sword. The other three pull out a combination of Blades, Batons and an inprovised Club. The muggers (6) are all armed with daggers. Tactics won the day. First the muggers doubled up on a PC and brought him down this caused the Noble to draw his pistol and start banging away at the lead mugger directing his goons from the rear. Then the PCs chad enough breathing room to copy the double team strategy and took down two muggers. This loss broke thier morale and they fled. Total combat rounds: 4.

Had the Noble drawn first blood with his Revolver the other PC may not have been hospitalized.
 
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