Starship designs

[Tom Schoene]

A slight oops in the writeups of the ships.

The scout/courier description (p. 46) states that the ship has only enough power for either jump drive or maneuver drive and that a larger power plant will be needed for energy weapons. However, the design specifications shows the powerplant producing 4 EPs, and the jump and maneuver drives each requiring 2 EPs. So the scout can power both drives at once, or power the M-drive and some weapons.

OTOH, the Far Trader (p 47) really does have only enough power for one drive at a time and nothing to spare for weapons, but has no note in the descriptive text about this. I suspect the note simply ended up in the wrong ship's writeup.

Also, I have a question about the design system. It looks like you've modified it so that turrets do not actually take up any volume in the ship, which is a departure from the High Guard (ands boook 2) approach. Is that correct?

 

[cmdrx]

I mentioned this in an eariler post (T20 Lite Problems and Comments). It seems as if the ship data write-up is in error. I believe the Scout should only have 2 EP instead of 4.
It looks as if the Power Plant field was cut/pasted from the Far Trader write-up.

 

[Tom Schoene]

Originally posted by cmdrx:
I mentioned this in an eariler post (T20 Lite Problems and Comments).

Ah. Sorry for the duplication. I had read that thread, but somehow didn't make the connection.

FWIW, I think the scout/courier should have some surplus power. The standard "scout mix" armament has always included one laser (plus a missile and a sandcaster). Also, the text mentions that the ship would normally have carried more elaborate sensors and computers. I think it would have needed more power to operate those systems.

 

[far-trader]

OK, I'm a little late getting around to this but there seem to be no answers here to the questions so maybe adding my voice and bumping this back to the top of the heap will elicit a response.

In looking (finally

) at the T20 lite rules (v02) I noticed the Far-Trader (natch that'd be my first concern) seems wrong. It lists a 4ep power plant, which is the required size for the drives but gives it only 6dT (displacement). In HG it should be 12dT. So did they change this for T20? Or should it be a 2ep power plant (and then you could only run one drive at a time, though then the fuel is wrong)? Or do we just change the cargo hold to a nice even 60dT and increase the size of the power plant to 12dT?

As for your weapons question Tom Schoene I imagine that what is listed (two hardpoints and two installed double turrets sans weapons) is a standard configuration but does not include the fire control stations (which were what used to be the 1dT per in CT) so when you drop in some guns you have to find someplace to put the gunner stations. Guess where I'm putting the lowberths in my deckplans and what'll be the first equipment swapped out

I am a little worried by some of the posts regarding T20 Lite and hope the full version is not as 'buggy'...

 

[tjoneslo]

Originally posted by far-trader:
In looking (finally

) at the T20 lite rules (v02) I noticed the Far-Trader (natch that'd be my first concern) seems wrong. It lists a 4ep power plant, which is the required size for the drives but gives it only 6dT (displacement). In HG it should be 12dT. So did they change this for T20? Or should it be a 2ep power plant (and then you could only run one drive at a time, though then the fuel is wrong)? Or do we just change the cargo hold to a nice even 60dT and increase the size of the power plant to 12dT?

I believe the problem stems from the fact that HG lists Reserve power only, whereas T20 the drives (jump and maneuver) require power, and the power plant now is required to list that power.

In HG PP-2 supplying 4EP requires 12 Dtons, but the MDrive and JDrive require no power.

In T20, the MDrive and JDrive require power. If you want the HG 4 EP, you need to install a 8 EP Powerplant (at TL11 is 12 Dtons, just like HG), 4EP for the Drives, plus the 4EP left over for what ever. If it helps, the T20 design has (effectivly) 0EP, it can't mount any energy weapons, and has no agility. But it does get an extra 6Dtons of cargo space.

I do remember discussing this in another thread. The T20 design system is compatable with, but not identical to, the HG design system. The power plants are one place where they differ. The other will be in the computer. In T20, the computer has been split into Computer core, sensor, communications, and Avionics. Build them in the standard manner and they have the same sizes as the HG computers, but you can change them around to get the really big sensor array on the scout ship.

As for your weapons question Tom Schoene I imagine that what is listed (two hardpoints and two installed double turrets sans weapons) is a standard configuration but does not include the fire control stations (which were what used to be the 1dT per in CT) so when you drop in some guns you have to find someplace to put the gunner stations.

HG never required the fire control stations. Neither does T20.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by tjoneslo:
I believe the problem stems from the fact that HG lists Reserve power only, whereas T20 the drives (jump and maneuver) require power, and the power plant now is required to list that power.

Ah, thanks for the clarification. I suspected this might be one of the exceptions/modifications to the old HG rules. Back to the drawing board

HG never required the fire control stations. Neither does T20.

I had completely blanked that out, largely because I never liked it. This could be the first split for MTU with T20

As an aside did you at least come up with the dT for the standard turret and barbette (if such are still around) in case someone wants to ship some or carry a spare? I'd also be curious how you (playtesters, Hunter et al.) could ignore the chance that somebody would want to mount, for example, instead of (x) turrets a single feature/craft of (x) dT, at no additional internal volume or drive cost? Of course I'm assuming you know/remember so if you don't just ignore the inquiry.

 

[tjoneslo]

Originally posted by far-trader:
I had completely blanked that out, largely because I never liked it. This could be the first split for MTU with T20

As an aside did you at least come up with the dT for the standard turret and barbette (if such are still around) in case someone wants to ship some or carry a spare? I'd also be curious how you (playtesters, Hunter et al.) could ignore the chance that somebody would want to mount, for example, instead of (x) turrets a single feature/craft of (x) dT, at no additional internal volume or drive cost? Of course I'm assuming you know/remember so if you don't just ignore the inquiry.[/QB]

T20 uses HG has it's compatibilty point. HG states a turret takes 1Dton from the ship, which it does in T20. Book 2 states each turret requires 1 Dton for fire control for each turret installed. Neither HG nor T20 state what the 1 Dton of internal space is used for, only that it must be allocated.

The designs in T20lite (and I believe T20 Player handbook) are deficient in that the space is not alreadly allocated, and players installing turrets will loose the 1dton per turret space, probably from the cargo bay. Even Book 2 states that if the fire control space is not allocated in the original design, you need to take it from the cargo space.

 

[far-trader]

OK, just my average density showing again I figured when you said "never required fire control stations" T20 had done away with all displacement. As HG states that 'where it is incomplete reference Bk2' (words to that effect) I've always figured since Bk2 says it's fire control, HG agrees with that as the default. Anyway, thanks again, this puts me back at ease. Hope this'll hold me till the book drops in my mail slot and then all my questions will be answered , or, more likely, multiplied

 

[Shadow Bear]

Originally posted by far-trader:
OK, just my average density showing again I figured when you said "never required fire control stations" T20 had done away with all displacement. As HG states that 'where it is incomplete reference Bk2' (words to that effect) I've always figured since Bk2 says it's fire control, HG agrees with that as the default. Anyway, thanks again, this puts me back at ease. Hope this'll hold me till the book drops in my mail slot and then all my questions will be answered , or, more likely, multiplied

Note that the turrets for Fusion and Plasma Guns will require 2 dtons and the Particle Accelerator turret requires 3 dtons accord to the play test rules version I have.

 

[justacaveman]

At least the Scout has more cargo space, so allocating space for weaponry is no big deal.

I'm not sure of the other ships, since I don't have the old CT books.