Starship Troopers UWP government digit
- Thread starter Vargr
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RandyT0001
SOC-13
3
Seems to me to be the best choice.
Of course Traveller governmnet descriptions are a bit non-specific for a latitude in interpertation.
Seems to me to be the best choice.
Of course Traveller governmnet descriptions are a bit non-specific for a latitude in interpertation.
While 3 has issues, I would go with it over 2.
3 has "rule by minority with little or no input from masses". "Rule by minority" sounds good, but "no input from masses" doesn't - Millions of government employees get to vote in Starship Troopers. But, 2's "government by advice and consent of the citizen" has the problem that only a portion of the population gets to vote in Starship Troopers..
2.5?
3 has "rule by minority with little or no input from masses". "Rule by minority" sounds good, but "no input from masses" doesn't - Millions of government employees get to vote in Starship Troopers. But, 2's "government by advice and consent of the citizen" has the problem that only a portion of the population gets to vote in Starship Troopers..
2.5?
RandyT0001
SOC-13
Sturn, if the world has billions in population but only a few hundred of millions can vote that means that most of the population, the masses, don't really have a say in how government law and policy is conducted except through conversations and persuassion of the electorate. For it to be considered a participating democracy I think that the entire adult population (maybe the adult males or females) would have the ability to vote. That's why I go with government code of 3 more than 2.
RandyT0001
SOC-13
It's been awhile since I last read Starship Troopers. IMO the citizenry of a charismatic oligarchy consists of a majority of the population of a planet who have the right to vote. This citizenry votes/selects the group (class or organtization) from a field of several competing groups (maybe individuals) that the electorate believes will best serve them (and the general population) in government service. I don't think the citizens in Starship Troopers constituted a majority of the population of the planet therefore I don't think it's a charismatic oligarchy.
And that's why I did too. I was just pointing out that "Little or no input from masses" doesn't truly represent Starship Troopers though when millions (even if only a portion of the pop) still enjoy the power to vote. Even in a democracy not everyone gets to vote, hard to draw a distinct line between democracy and oligarchy. Early US was called a democracy even though only white male adults could vote. That's a distinct group just like only past government employees.
But, with what Traveller has I would go with 3 also. I could probably be convinced of C also, since the government seemed to enjoy the confidence of the masses.
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far-trader
SOC-14 10K
(with a wink to Monty Python... )
"The novel or the movie?" :devil:
(The novel of course, right... )
I'll throw in a dissenting choice just for the discussion
9 - Impersonal Bureaucracy
The agencies (political and military) that govern are insulated (no say in it) from the governed (the majority anyway, the bulk of the high pop world not serving their 2 years for voting privileges).
I think one can argue that those who serve are part of the government, not the governed.
3 - Self-Perpetuating Oligarchy... no, that really doesn't sing ST for me. There is input from the masses. All you have to do is serve your 2 years. And the government of ST are required to find a job for anyone and everyone who volunteers (even if said jobs may not be the safest or most glamorous - like experimental medical procedure/drug test subject... though given the military training and missions of the MI that might be the safer choice).
"The novel or the movie?" :devil:
(The novel of course, right... )
I'll throw in a dissenting choice just for the discussion
9 - Impersonal Bureaucracy
The agencies (political and military) that govern are insulated (no say in it) from the governed (the majority anyway, the bulk of the high pop world not serving their 2 years for voting privileges).
I think one can argue that those who serve are part of the government, not the governed.
3 - Self-Perpetuating Oligarchy... no, that really doesn't sing ST for me. There is input from the masses. All you have to do is serve your 2 years. And the government of ST are required to find a job for anyone and everyone who volunteers (even if said jobs may not be the safest or most glamorous - like experimental medical procedure/drug test subject... though given the military training and missions of the MI that might be the safer choice).
RandyT0001
SOC-13
The masses can earn an effective input (vote) only after serving. The oligarchy determines what consitutes acceptable service and has influence to the degree how dangerous an individual's service is. Before this the masses can only talk to members of the oligarcy in an effort to persuade them to a certain course of action (or vote). There are some bureaucratic elements in it but since the electorate itself is governend by the same laws (isn't that one of the reasons the government was re-structured this way because before there were different laws and enforcement for government officials versus the masses) only the non-electorate masses are insulated but there is a fairly straightforward method for the masses to change their status, service.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Possibly quite true of all the government codes
(I was originally going to say 7 - Balkanized because my vague recollection was that the government of the book wasn't global, but I can't recall for sure... and besides you worded it as a world gov like the ST one.)
(I was originally going to say 7 - Balkanized because my vague recollection was that the government of the book wasn't global, but I can't recall for sure... and besides you worded it as a world gov like the ST one.)
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