Stats of Large Ships

[Vargas]

Two questions for the masses:

How important is it to you that large scale naval vessels get statted out?
Have you actually had a use for such a ship outside of something like Trillion Credit Squadron or merely as a prop in a ship encounter?

I've been wondering about the actually utility of providing stats for big ships over and above the "for the sake of completeness" factor.

Thanks in advance.

 

[robject]

Not very.

It's critically important that the system defines and uses them, consistently, to the degree that the game needs them, according to the constraints of the game. Although I can't define those terms off the top of my head.

 

[Icosahedron]

IMHO, as you say, they might be needed for a TCS slugfest, but if a group of adventurers meets up with a capital ship, you don't need to stat it out cos the thing is just Referee slang for "Stop what you're f***ing doing right now or you'll be rolling new characters!"

 

[robject]

Right. You need rules to constrain them, but it really doesn't matter so much that a Tigress has 400 Factor-9 missile batteries versus (say) 300 of them or 500 of them. It might only be necessary to say it has hundreds of missile bays. But it is important to know what the Tigress' capabilities are (1) with its auxiliary craft, (2) in a squadron, and (3) in a fleet. It's also important to know what's required to build those things, because wargames need that sort of data.

 

[aramis]

Having used ships across the range of sizes covered by HG2... really, It's important for understanding the Universe.

heck, when running Trek, I use the Fed CA and Kl D7 plans (from FASA), and the various other Trek Plan available to provide sense of scale. Sup5 is good enough to provide that sense of scale.

 

[sabredog]

I stat them out because I enjoy building them and I like to have the numbers handy just in case I need them for something. Sometimes a player might ask to look over my version of Jane's Ships of The Terran Empire.

But the players rarely care - they fly past a battlecruiser whose guns are bigger than their ship and it just reminds them that they are in Imperial space now and they better behave themselves.

 

[rancke]

But the players rarely care - they fly past a battlecruiser whose guns are bigger than their ship and it just reminds them that they are in Imperial space now and they better behave themselves.

Or at least be subtle about how they misbehave.


Hans

 

[flykiller]

I've been wondering about the actually utility of providing stats for big ships over and above the "for the sake of completeness" factor.

I analyzed the strategic situation in the spinward marches, decided on a general fleet form, statted out each and every ship class in the fleet according to its tactical and strategic function, figured out how many of each could be built and maintained, and assigned them all to bases and task forces according to the strategic situation. I also delineated the chain of command and scope of responsibility of each commodore and admiral, embarked and deployed marine units, depots, and forward bases, and also assigned supply lines and schedules.

and I did it solely so that when players encountered any fleet elements I would know with certainty what those elements were doing there, and how they would react to any given situation, and why. and by fleet elements, in addition to the ships, I mean their commanders, their officers, and their enlisted. an encounter with a commodore or a supply chief or a boat pilot should not be a "random wandering monster" event. "the imperial navy" is a primary npc. it should be treated as such.

 

[Hemdian]

In general terms I second what aramis and flykiller wrote.

And in a specific instance I once based a campaign on a fleet: that fleet was the PCs home, and servicing it's needs was their job.

 

[Icosahedron]

For completeness, and because when I got LBB5 I wanted to play with it, I have statted out some capital ships, but I've never used capital ship stats in a game.
For the purposes of force allocation I tend to use the far more vague scale of Pocket Empires.
Even that is a PITA, and there is no way I can be bothered statting out every lifeboat and every ensign in the fleet. I have an idea of what the IN's goals are in an area and what level of force might be allocated, but that's as far as it goes.

If it becomes important to the plot, ok, but in general my IN is just a huge nebulous entity that nobody in his right mind messes with.

Not quite a 'random wandering monster', but a monster whose motives and movements are beyond the interpretation of the average adventurer. The in-game difference between that and a fully worked out navy is academic, but it saves a helluva lot of thankless work.

 

[mbrinkhues]

Arrival Vengeance

aka "Touring the Empire in a Warship" Needs stats for the big guys because one of them is at the center of the campaign.

 

[abomination]

I'm Less interested in large warships than huge commercial freighters & liners, which are implied in traveller but AFAIK have never been designed. I plan to introduce my players to a supertanker, a commercial fuel skimming operation, complete with specialised skimming barges & maybe a Titanic / Queen Mary sized liner.

 

[mbrinkhues]

GURPS:Traveller has a number of bigger ships in IIRC FarTrader, among them the LASH-Tender. And the lighters of that tender include a dedicated fuel skimmer

 

[abomination]

GURPS:Traveller has a number of bigger ships in IIRC FarTrader, among them the LASH-Tender. And the lighters of that tender include a dedicated fuel skimmer

Thanks, I'll try & pick that up.

 

[robject]

For completeness, and because when I got LBB5 I wanted to play with it, I have statted out some capital ships, but I've never used capital ship stats in a game.
For the purposes of force allocation I tend to use the far more vague scale of Pocket Empires.

Pocket Empires seems far too vague, too. There's some happy medium in my mind that sits closer to Book 5 than PE, where ship differentiation matters, and ship mission matters, but whether you have 412 triple turrets, or only 411 of them, doesn't.

Let me put it another way: in High Guard, there comes a point beyond which the detail effectively ceases to matter, and yet the design rules require this detail from the designer. At that point design becomes a mechanical chore with no value.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

The system must let you use the same rules to design any ships, whatever the size, but it's true that most people don't need much detail with big ships.

 

[mbrinkhues]

Thanks, I'll try & pick that up.

Wait a day or three and I'll list ship sizes and concepts. Maybe there's not enough in there or nothing of interest

 

[Gadrin]

Thanks, I'll try & pick that up.

Also BITS has a free PDF of GURPS Traveller ships of all sizes that
are already statted out and even some deckplans for them.

it's called 101 Starships (and there's more than 101 in there).

Last time I looked it was like a 7meg download.

They're grouped by type and race/political etc and you'll have to
translate GURPS TLs to Traveller TLs (which is in the main GURPS
Traveller book). We can post it here if you need it.

It's very handy reference to say find a corporate J-6 Express boat
that has a fast small craft (and is the latest TL) so your mega-corp
can dispatch info quickly to where ever you need.

>

 

[Whipsnade]

Gents,

Like Flykiller I produced a "environmental summary" of Imperial Navy assets and activities in the regions where my campaigns took place. Unlike Flykiller however, I didn't produce USPs or anything but the broadest of "stats" for the majority of the vessels in that summary. When detailed stats were needed, i simply borrowed them from the various IN examples in Expedition to Zhodane, Leviathan, SMC, S:9, and elsewhere.

Drawing a rough analogy here, to me the IN in Traveller is akin to dragons in early D&D. Yes, it exists and, yes, the players will have interactions with it. Just as the existence and activities of dragons in dungeons must be, the IN's existence and activities need to be more logical, more plausible, and more planned than some random encounter table. Just as a dragon shouldn't be passively waiting next door to that crypt full of bugbears, an IN squadron shouldn't be hanging off some gas giant doing sod all until the players stumble across it.


Regards,
Bill

 

[Icosahedron]

Just as a dragon shouldn't be passively waiting next door to that crypt full of bugbears, an IN squadron shouldn't be hanging off some gas giant doing sod all until the players stumble across it.

Regards,
Bill

Bill, you've forgotten your quantum theory.

The act of stumbling across it collapses the probability wave from an indefinite 'sod all' activity to a definite mission based on the overall strategy and defined by the referee in whatever detail is necessary.

But you do still need a vague overall IN strategy.