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Stranger things in Heaven and Earth than are dreamt of...

Mickazoid

SOC-13
...in our philosophy!

Here's one of my all-time favorite animals (a sloth), definitely very alien in appearance and manner.

With all the emphasis on 'survival of the fittest' (sic) used to justify 'bigger/faster/tougher' creatures in creature design, it's nice to know that God or whatever force you believe brought about life can create such a lovely and languid animal... and it's definitely food for thought for extraterrestrial creature design.

Enjoy!

Baby:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kTkOgHO4pA

Adult:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltavASpYtCE
 
Not to start an argument, but "survival of the fittest" simply means that creatures that are best adapted to their ecological niche tend to survive. The ecological niche of the sloth is almost completely arboreal, they are herbivores, and don't really have any natural predators. Thus, they don't need to be tough, fast, or much of anything, really. Same as a koala.

The same holds true for any creature. Don't try to make a monster. Figure out where it sits in the food chain, or even if it does, what it's environment is, and go from there. Or, if you want a monster, figure out why it's like that. What environmental/evolutionary pressures is it under, and it becomes more believable.

Cute critters, though.
 
Originally posted by Colin:
Not to start an argument, but "survival of the fittest" simply means that creatures that are best adapted to their ecological niche tend to survive. -clip-

The same holds true for any creature. Don't try to make a monster. Figure out where it sits in the food chain, or even if it does, what it's environment is, and go from there. Or, if you want a monster, figure out why it's like that. What environmental/evolutionary pressures is it under, and it becomes more believable.

Cute critters, though.
Leave out the "evolutionary" and we'd be in complete agreement.


Consider the how and why a creature survives where it does and it becomes more believable.

Regardless of HOW it got there (remember Traveller postulates intellegent design on several worlds as well as transfers of species between worlds), the critter still has to survive somehow. What I like about Mickazoids post is that she reminds us that "survival of the fittest" does not always result in the fastest, biggest, strongest or most intelligent winning out. There's still room for the sloth, the guppy, and the butterfly :cool: (and the house fly, gnat and mosquito for that matter. :rolleyes: )

SGB

PS - I don't think we should hijack Mickazoids thread for a discussion on the origins of life. However, if anyone wants to discuss (discuss not argue) the origins of life in a different non-travellerrpg forum, it sounds like a great idea to me as long as it's civil.
 
Not to contribute to a tangent, but I put 'sic' after the phrase 'survival of the fittest' because Charles Darwin never used that term, and in fact would likely disagree with the premise.

The idea is not that 'surviving' species are 'fittest', just that they are best equipped for their environment and conditions. Animals (like the sloth) can survive where far more 'fit' creatures perish, because niches, etc. are more relevant than 'fitness' (bigger/faster/stronger) per se.

As far as creationism vs. evolution, I think that issue falls squarely in both of the "don't discuss politics or religion" categories.
 
Originally posted by mickazoid:


As far as creationism vs. evolution, I think that issue falls squarely in both of the "don't discuss politics or religion" categories.
Agreed, I don't anyone is going to convince anyone of anything on this topic. My apologies for any thread-jacking.

Making creatures more believable by considering their role in their environment makes for a more realistic world, and generally, a more enjoyable game. Of course, the occasional 'monster' keeps things interesting, but if it, too, has a role in the ecosystem, then that gives characters more options. Who knows, upon discovering that the frumious bandersnatch is a climax predator that takes 15 years to mature, and keesp the population of jub-jub birds in its territory from getting out of control and consuming all the borogoves, well, the characters on safari may content themselves with holos instead. Or not, in the case of most of the games I've run. :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by mickazoid:
Here's a cool site with some very bizarre creatures:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/10/photogalleries/bizarre-beasts/index.html
Truth is stanger than fiction! If you'd put a model of the shark up as a proposed critter, I'd have said no way. Mickazoid, thanks once again for getting me out of my box!


Colin - I didn't think you were hijacking the thread ... I just know my self and others well enough to know there's a reason for the politics and religion prohibition. We don't always play nicely :( ... and I didn't want to hijack it! I'd rather get more things that help me with unique but interesting critters.
 
Another resource for some cool, yet realistic, critters, is the book Wild World of the Future by Claire Pye. It's on Amazon, and is the companion book to the DVD series The Future is Wild. Another good one is the DVD series Alien Planet, which, in addition to some good aliens, features some really cool tech ideas for the exploratory robots and their support systems. Both DVD sets are available on Amazon as well.

Here's a flash game that explores a little of the world of Alien Planet
Alien Planet Expedition game
 
Survival of the "fit-in-est"? (those which have found a place to "fit in" in the local ecology)

And Darwin used the term "adaptation"... which has been proven as a fact. Living beings do undergo adaptations to deal with changing environments and stresses... while large-scale changes described as "evolution" are less proven.


Therefore, using the "Adaptation/adapted" term should cause no major heart-ache.
 
Originally posted by mickazoid:
Animals (like the sloth) can survive where far more 'fit' creatures perish, because niches, etc. are more relevant than 'fitness' (bigger/faster/stronger) per se.
I'd argue that "fitness" can only be described in terms of environment, it's not an attribute that can have a number attached to it whatever the situation. Ie, it's not like STR or DEX ;)

In any case, this book is great if you can find a copy (I wish I could find mine!) ...

After Man: A Zoology of the Future

Great source of ready-made critters!
 
Given the bulk of what we find out there are going to be animals (not sentient lifeforms with technology matching ours) humanity had better get rapidly a course in xenobiology and ecology. Unless we want to do something like introducing the rabbit to Australia but in reverse imagine if that type of xenomorph was introduced here on the Green Hills of Earth?
 
If you are attracted to the DVD Alien Planet, then you might want to check out a book by the science fiction / fantasy artist Wayne Douglas Barlowe called Expedition upon which Alien Planet is based.


On the subject of weird critters, terrestrial slime molds have always fascinated me. Just because they appear to be a successful leftover of another epoch.
 
Interesting...the first time I heard the term 'xenomorph' being used was in the film Aliens. I looked it up on Onelook - it's not in any of the main dictionaries but there is a wiki entry which says this:

1. A strange form. Derived from prefix xeno- to mean strange, alien, or foreign and the suffix -morph to mean form.
2. The technical term for a monster or monstrous creature.
3. Name invented for the extraterrestrial creatures in the film Aliens.

Just found it to be an interesting factoid (sorry if it's a bit off topic)

Ravs
 
It is not all together odd that the English language will grow from interaction with its culture as other languages do (although, in German you have the advantage of being able to create words). Xenomorph has not entered the lexicon yet but give it a few years. Say early 22nd century, right after First Contact with Vilani ought to do the trick.

The Oceans for me are wonderious places to explore (ie scuba & snorkling) for suddenly you realize what it means to be out of ones element yet a return to something very primal. Life & death can happen in a few seconds and it relies upon people working with each other to ensure survival. Flora & Fauna can be beautiful, wonderful as well as deadly & dangerious. There are even ruins sometimes to explore ie. wargraves, galleons of old.

The world may be our oyster but how strange and wonderful such a small creature like that is when you step back and look at it with the eyes of a child. It no longer seems just to be a member of the mollusk family but a factory, home and weird creature that might snatch you in the night.

Taking that feeling and putting it into Outer Space is what I aim for in all my Traveller games.
 
Originally posted by Jeff M. Hopper:
If you are attracted to the DVD Alien Planet, then you might want to check out a book by the science fiction / fantasy artist Wayne Douglas Barlowe called Expedition upon which Alien Planet is based.


On the subject of weird critters, terrestrial slime molds have always fascinated me. Just because they appear to be a successful leftover of another epoch.
I thought that there was a book involved. Thanks.

Yes, I remember an article in National Geographic about the slime mold when I was a kid, and being utterly fascinated. Of course, had I seen one in person, I would likely have been utterly repulsed.

Which brings to mind another issue involving alien life-forms. Human reactions to aliens, intelligent or otherwise, are going to vary based on appearance. If we encounter a species of vicious killers who happen to look like baby harp seals ('whitecoats') we're going to have trouble reconciling that. Anything insectoid, or slimy, or just plain really weird, we're going to have trouble with as well, no matter their reaction to us.
 
Originally posted by kafka47:
The Oceans for me are wonderious places to explore (ie scuba & snorkling) for suddenly you realize what it means to be out of ones element yet a return to something very primal. Life & death can happen in a few seconds and it relies upon people working with each other to ensure survival. Flora & Fauna can be beautiful, wonderful as well as deadly & dangerious. There are even ruins sometimes to explore ie. wargraves, galleons of old.

The world may be our oyster but how strange and wonderful such a small creature like that is when you step back and look at it with the eyes of a child. It no longer seems just to be a member of the mollusk family but a factory, home and weird creature that might snatch you in the night.

Taking that feeling and putting it into Outer Space is what I aim for in all my Traveller games.
I agree completely. I've had joy and terror while scuba diving, encounters with incredible animals, vast kelp fields, and of course the amazing experience of weightlessness and reorientation to new angles and aspects. The colors are otherworldly (the neon greens and blues cannot be replicated on the surface), and the entire experience is always profound.

I'd live underwater if it were possible.

A few great little anecdotes:

1. I was diving in about 70 feet of sunny Caribbean water when it suddenly became darker. I looked up to see that a manta was playing in my bubble stream. It stayed above me (and I in its' shadow) for almost the whole dive. A bit later in that dive I happened upon a grotto with a line of tarpin waiting to be cleaned... looked just like a gas line from the '70s


2. I was deep diving (120 feet) and climbing down the rope to the target (a cutter that sank on its' side) in an unbroken field of blue, punctuated by the silvery streaks of barracuda hovering around the line. As I reached closer to the ship, the first thing I saw below me, emerging out of the deep blueness, were the huge block letters spelling 'COAST GUARD'. It was absolutely breathtaking. The sideways orientation of the ship was very confusing, walls were floors and keeping your bearings was difficult, which led us to...

3. Later on during that same dive I would almost lose my life when, after penetrating the wreck my buddy turned tail and headed for the surface without me - and thinking her lost in the wreck, I exceeded my bottom time searching for her throughout the dark ship. Finally I realized I would die if I didn't leave - and I headed up to the surface, with dread in my heart. Thankfully I knew to take a :45 safety stop to outgas... and thankfully I had a writing tablet that I used to ask for two more air tanks, which I needed to complete my decompression. At 120 feet you've got something like 19 minutes total downtime, and I had spent 30 minutes at depth. If I had come up to the surface straightaway (for example, if I'd used up more of my O2 in panic), paralysis or death would have been the likely result.

4. I did a bathysphere dive to 800 feet off the North Wall in the Caymans. The experience of diving to 800 feet is highly reminiscent of space flight, and the huge 'haystacks' visible down there (100' tall rock formations) looked like you could sit on them (the fisheye of the capsule created a very odd distortion).

SCUBA and deepwater dives are the closest thing to being an astronaut that I've been able to experience, and I love it very very much.
 
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