Striker Book 3 CPR Chemical Ammunition revisted

[snrdg082102]

Morning all,

Recapping the information provided on Book 3 page 16:

L. Ammunition 10 - Chemical: Chemical rounds must be defined as persistent or non-persistent, lethal or non-lethal.

I've checked both versions of the Consolidated CT Errata I have and neither lists any errata for the Chemical round.

Back in April 2011 I asked about the Striker Chemical round over on ct-starships, message 16254, which came back with the cost of a round being double the cost of an illumination round based on MT Referee's Manual page 76. The MT Referee's Manual also indicates that a Chaff round also doubles the cost of the illumination round and a CBM round triples the cost.

Looking at the CPR Ammunition Table on page 9 of the Design Sequence Tables book the multiplier for Chaff is x2 and CBM is x3, which appears to match the information in MT Referee's Manual.

Based on the above I think the a chemical has a price multiplier of 2 added to the CPR Ammunition Table.

There are other details that are not included in the design sequence.

1. Cloud size is not mentioned in Book 3, however Books 1 and 2 do appear to provide information on the cloud size.

Striker Book 2 Rule 65 Chemical Warfare pages 33-34 indicates that the chemical, persistent and non-persistent, agent's gas cloud size is determined by the number of rounds landing and the normal sheaf rules in Book 1 Rule 23 pages 39-40 and the Beaten Zone Table on seventh page in the Useful Tables Book.

2. Duration

Book 2 Rule 65 does provide information on how long the chemical clouds last. Persistent agents last for the remainder of the game, while non-persistent agents drift downwind across the board at a 10 cm rate until leaving the playing area.

Summary:

1. Chemical Round has a price multiplier of 2.
2. Base Cloud size = 2 cm x 2 cm
3. Actual Size depends on the number of rounds used:

Size = 2 cm x Beaten Zone Table Multiplier for number of rounds used
Example: 4 rounds fired, Beaten Zone Table Sheaf Size Multiplier = 2
Base Cloud Size 2 cm x 2 and t 4 round cloud size of 4 cm x 4 cm.

3. Duration: Variable

Does the above seem reasonable clarifications to be added to Chemical round design?

I'm knocked together a submission on the Chemical round for the Consolidated CT Errata document that I've add to the ct-striker and ct-starships files for review.

If anybody would like a copy sending me an email and I will send you a copy, for some reason I haven't managed to get the PDF uploaded here.

 

[Carlobrand]

"Chemical rounds create an initial gas cloud with a size determined by the number of rounds landing; the cloud will be a normal sheaf for that number of rounds".

The base size of the cloud is the beaten zone of a normal sheaf. The size of the beaten zone is determined by the burst size of an HE round of that type and the number of rounds fired. The beaten zone for a single round amounts to the burst size for that round. Ergo, the size of the cloud created by a single round is the burst size for that round - anything from 1 cm to 6 cm depending on the shell size, and shells below a certain size (having no burst size) could not be used to deliver gas.

 

[DangerousThing]

"Chemical rounds create an initial gas cloud with a size determined by the number of rounds landing; the cloud will be a normal sheaf for that number of rounds".

The base size of the cloud is the beaten zone of a normal sheaf. The size of the beaten zone is determined by the burst size of an HE round of that type and the number of rounds fired. The beaten zone for a single round amounts to the burst size for that round. Ergo, the size of the cloud created by a single round is the burst size for that round - anything from 1 cm to 6 cm depending on the shell size, and shells below a certain size (having no burst size) could not be used to deliver gas.

But I'm assuming that the cm is a Striker scale cm. What is that in standard metric units for use in Traveller?

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello DangerousThing,

But I'm assuming that the cm is a Striker scale cm. What is that in standard metric units for use in Traveller?

Striker Book 1 Rule 1: Game Scale and Environment page 4

B. Distance: 1 millimeter equals 1 meter; 1 centimeter equals 10 meters.

From Carlobrands post: 1 cm to 6 cm = 10 meters to 60 meters

 

[snrdg082102]

Afternoon Carlobrand,

"Chemical rounds create an initial gas cloud with a size determined by the number of rounds landing; the cloud will be a normal sheaf for that number of rounds"

The base size of the cloud is the beaten zone of a normal sheaf. The size of the beaten zone is determined by the burst size of an HE round of that type and the number of rounds fired. The beaten zone for a single round amounts to the burst size for that round. Ergo, the size of the cloud created by a single round is the burst size for that round - anything from 1 cm to 6 cm depending on the shell size, and shells below a certain size (having no burst size) could not be used to deliver gas.

A chemical round disperses the agent in a cloud I use the Smoke rounds cloud sizes not the HE burst size. Maybe not being able to upload my errata submission here is a good thing, to bad ct-striker and ct-starships let me.

Book 3 L. Ammunition 9. Smoke page 16

Bores >= 2 - <= 6.5 cm produces a 1 cm x 1 cm cloud
Bores > 7 cm produces a 2 cm x 2 cm cloud.

This might mean that I have been using the wrong round parameters to determine the chemical cloud size.

 

[snrdg082102]

I'm glad I haven't been able to upload my pdf of by suggested Chemical round errata, since I just realized I don't have a clue of where to put the darn thing.

I'll just do a copy and past here.


Pages 15-16, Design Sequence 2: CPR Guns, L – Ammunition, 10 - Chemical (clarification/omission): [FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]The price multiplier for a chemical round is 2. The gas cloud size for a chemical round uses the burst size for a HE round of the weapons bore size. The actual cloud size is determined by using Striker Book 1 Rule 23: Firing sheaf and Beaten Zone on pages 39-40 and the Beaten Zone Table on the seventh page of the Useful Tables book. The duration that chemical agents remain active is determined using Striker Book 2 Rule 65: Chemical Warfare pages 33-34. [/FONT]
[/FONT]

 

[Carlobrand]

Afternoon Carlobrand,



A chemical round disperses the agent in a cloud I use the Smoke rounds cloud sizes not the HE burst size. Maybe not being able to upload my errata submission here is a good thing, to bad ct-striker and ct-starships let me.

Book 3 L. Ammunition 9. Smoke page 16

Bores >= 2 - <= 6.5 cm produces a 1 cm x 1 cm cloud
Bores > 7 cm produces a 2 cm x 2 cm cloud.

This might mean that I have been using the wrong round parameters to determine the chemical cloud size.

Well, as always you're free to do what you want in your game. However, I don't think there's any need for errata regarding cloud size - the game states it quite explicitly.

 

[snrdg082102]

Evening Carlobrand,

Well, as always you're free to do what you want in your game. However, I don't think there's any need for errata regarding cloud size - the game states it quite explicitly.

I quoted the pages that indicated to me explicitly which rounds have burst sizes and I did not see chemical, smoke, or illumination rounds as being on the list.

HE per the CPR the CPR Gun Table is explicitly identified as having a burst size.

Book 1 Rule 17 C. Explosive rounds page 33 explicitly identifies that HE has a burst size.

Book 1 Rule 24 A. Types of Rounds lists: 1. Ground Burst HE, 2. Air Burst HE, and 4. CBM as explicitly having a burst size.

Book 3 Design Sequence 2 L. Ammunition 1. HE explicitly shows that the round has a burst size.

Please provide me with the page or pages that state chemical rounds use burst size since I can't seem t to find the sources that provide the information.

 

[Carlobrand]

... I quoted the pages that indicated to me explicitly which rounds have burst sizes and I did not see chemical, smoke, or illumination rounds as being on the list.

...

Please provide me with the page or pages that state chemical rounds use burst size since I can't seem t to find the sources that provide the information.

Striker Book 2, pg. 33, Rule 65: Chemical Warfare
"Chemical rounds are available for any weapon that has an HE round with a burst size ... Chemical rounds create an initial gas cloud with a size determined by the number of rounds landing; the cloud will be a normal sheaf for that number of rounds."

Striker Book 1, pg. 33, Rule 23: Firing Sheaf and Beaten Zone
"When an artillery unit fires, the area covered by its shells and their bursts is referred to as its beaten zone. ... The size of the beaten zone is determined by the number of rounds fired, the burst area of each round, and the type of sheaf selected by the firing player...

"The beaten zone of a fire mission is a multiple of the burst area of a single round; the multiple depends on the number of rounds fired, as shown on the beaten zone table. ... The beaten zone is a square with each side equal to the multiplier times the burst size of a single round.

"The beaten zone table lists only the beaten zone of a normal firing sheaf..."

Design Sequence Tables, pg. 18
"Beaten Zone Table
Number Sheaf
of Rounds Size
1 1
4 2
16 4
25 5
36 6
..."

So, the size of the gas cloud is - by rules - defined as the size of a normal sheaf. The size of a normal sheaf is - by rules - determined by burst size and number of rounds:

>If a single TL5 5.5cm gas round lands, its normal sheaf is 1 cm by 1 cm (10 meters by 10 meters) in size: the initial gas cloud is a 10 m. by 10 m. cloud.

>If 36 TL5 5.5cm gas rounds land, their normal sheaf is 6x1, or 6 cm by 6 cm in size: the initial gas cloud is a single 60 m. by 60 m. cloud, not 36 little 10 m. clouds.

>If a single TL5 25cm gas round lands, its normal sheaf is 5 cm by 5 cm in size: the initial gas cloud is a 50 m. by 50 m. cloud.

 

[snrdg082102]

Morning Carlobrand,

Thank you for supplying the references and I will say that my definition of explicit is not the same as yours. Without your help I would still have missed the connection.

Striker Book 2, pg. 33, Rule 65: Chemical Warfare
"Chemical rounds are available for any weapon that has an HE round with a burst size ... Chemical rounds create an initial gas cloud with a size determined by the number of rounds landing; the cloud will be a normal sheaf for that number of rounds."

Striker Book 1, pg. 33, Rule 23: Firing Sheaf and Beaten Zone
"When an artillery unit fires, the area covered by its shells and their bursts is referred to as its beaten zone. ... The size of the beaten zone is determined by the number of rounds fired, the burst area of each round, and the type of sheaf selected by the firing player...

"The beaten zone of a fire mission is a multiple of the burst area of a single round; the multiple depends on the number of rounds fired, as shown on the beaten zone table. ... The beaten zone is a square with each side equal to the multiplier times the burst size of a single round.

"The beaten zone table lists only the beaten zone of a normal firing sheaf..."

Design Sequence Tables, pg. 18
"Beaten Zone Table
Number Sheaf
of Rounds Size
1 1
4 2
16 4
25 5
36 6
..."

So, the size of the gas cloud is - by rules - defined as the size of a normal sheaf. The size of a normal sheaf is - by rules - determined by burst size and number of rounds:

>If a single TL5 5.5cm gas round lands, its normal sheaf is 1 cm by 1 cm (10 meters by 10 meters) in size: the initial gas cloud is a 10 m. by 10 m. cloud.

>If 36 TL5 5.5cm gas rounds land, their normal sheaf is 6x1, or 6 cm by 6 cm in size: the initial gas cloud is a single 60 m. by 60 m. cloud, not 36 little 10 m. clouds.

>If a single TL5 25cm gas round lands, its normal sheaf is 5 cm by 5 cm in size: the initial gas cloud is a 50 m. by 50 m. cloud.