Struggles with creating worlds from UWPs.

[ffilz]

So I keep struggling with this...

The bit I think I struggle the most with is government type, how to translate the various government types into an interesting description, and also how they impact players. Marc Miller's article on government types is interesting in pointing out that the government type is primarily a description of the player facing aspects of the government. But that doesn't really help me...

Atmosphere type is another one that I am challenged to interpret in interesting ways, though it has immediate mechanical meaning (indicating what kinds of equipment are necessary).

I'm also reading Roger Moore's article in Dragon Magazine, "Preventing Complacency in Traveller Gaming" for ideas.

Any other ideas folks can point me to would be cool.

I'm even interested in notes like "hey, the description of world xyz from adventure 21 is a really cool example of what to do with these particular aspects of the UWP".

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Name one of the governments that you need an example of.

 

[McPerth]

Atmosphere type is another one that I am challenged to interpret in interesting ways, though it has immediate mechanical meaning (indicating what kinds of equipment are necessary).

There was an article in a JTAS about it (ITTR it was JTAS #16)

 

[ffilz]

Name one of the governments that you need an example of.

All of them?

 

[ffilz]

There was an article in a JTAS about it (ITTR it was JTAS #16)

Are you thinking of "A Referee's Guide to Planet-Building" in 10 and 11?

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

All of them?

Use Wiki then to get a feel for each government type then. Governments are tricky at first.

 

[kilemall]

Alright, let's work backwards from a real world example, classic ancient China.

I would characterize it as a Charismatic or Non-Charismatic dictatorship and the facing part would be an 8, Civil Service Bureaucracy.

The average Chinese citizen did not interact with the Emperor, they did interact with his bureaucrats.

 

[Condottiere]

Success is Imperial, failure is the lonely local Mandarin who's screwed either way.

 

[ffilz]

Alright, let's work backwards from a real world example, classic ancient China.

I would characterize it as a Charismatic or Non-Charismatic dictatorship and the facing part would be an 8, Civil Service Bureaucracy.

The average Chinese citizen did not interact with the Emperor, they did interact with his bureaucrats.

Ok, get the example, but it still leaves me unsure what that actually means for the PCs day to day.

In one sense, I wonder how many different systems there actually are when one considers what it actually looks like to the PCs...

 

[Leitz]

The government only means what your story needs it to mean. Alfred Hitchcock's quote applies to games: "Drama is life with the dull bits cut out." Unless you need the government to impact the story in a meaningful way, skip it. How many times a week do you have to interact with a government representative?

 

[atpollard]

Ok, get the example, but it still leaves me unsure what that actually means for the PCs day to day.

In one sense, I wonder how many different systems there actually are when one considers what it actually looks like to the PCs...

The Traveller types are the PC day to day. Take for example "non-charismatic Dictator" Now Nero in Ancient Rome was a non-charismatic dictator, but the PCs are unlikely to interact with Nero. However, we have all seen Ben Hur (great chariot scene). In Palestine under Roman rule, a problem with the government ... from a Centurion leading a patrol through the streets of town, to standing trial before the Roman Governor ... is going to be an encounter with a 'non-charismatic dictator'. The government power structure where the players interact with it take on that character.

So what does that mean when you are caught with an illegal weapon for that LL at the extrality fence? Or in a bar room brawl?

 

[whulorigan]

Atmosphere type is another one that I am challenged to interpret in interesting ways, though it has immediate mechanical meaning (indicating what kinds of equipment are necessary).

JTAS #17 had an insert called Special Supplement #2: Exotic Atmospheres that included some overlap with the various "tainted" types.

Some common "taints" may be as simple as the partial pressures of the gas mix (N₂, O₂, CO₂, etc) being at the wrong percentages, resulting in undesirable short-term or long-term consequences.

Examples:

1. Standard pressure, but too little O₂ in the mix (or too much, which is also bad);
2. Too much CO₂ and you starting getting impaired judgement and a possible gag-reflex;
3. The presence of SO₂ from volcanism or other chemical (or alien biological) processes, which need to be filtered out;
4. Too high pressure of an N₂/O₂ mix, and you will start forming nitrous compounds (e.g. NO₂, etc), which are bad.

In fact, even if a world has native life, the gas mix of the world will be adapted for the native life (or actually visa-versa) and humans will most likely need to adapt to the different mix.

Any world with a breathable mix without aid (type 5, 6, or 8, with correct gas-mix percentages for humans) is almost certainly evidence of terraforming at some time in the past, since O₂ is highly reactive and will not remain free in an atmosphere unless it is being constantly replenished by some process). Even some tainted atmospheres may be examples of worlds which had previously been terraformed, but not maintained, and the atmosphere is slowly evolving in a different direction as the O₂ recombines with other elements.

 

[kilemall]

The Traveller types are the PC day to day. Take for example "non-charismatic Dictator" Now Nero in Ancient Rome was a non-charismatic dictator, but the PCs are unlikely to interact with Nero. However, we have all seen Ben Hur (great chariot scene). In Palestine under Roman rule, a problem with the government ... from a Centurion leading a patrol through the streets of town, to standing trial before the Roman Governor ... is going to be an encounter with a 'non-charismatic dictator'. The government power structure where the players interact with it take on that character.

So what does that mean when you are caught with an illegal weapon for that LL at the extrality fence? Or in a bar room brawl?

Hmm, I'm not sure I am onboard with that interpretation.

If we were doing the Roman World and each region is effectively a world with a port/trading village/Roman fort, then the Non-charismatic leader would be the overlaying government for all, but not the day to day experience.

A conquered region or city would have Captive Government and be dragged in front of the senior military officer.

Rome itself would likely be degraded from a Representative Democracy to a Self-Perpetuating Oligarchy, where who you know matters as to getting in and out of legal trouble. Arguably in transition to the non-charismatic leader style, with 'grave' consequences to Nero.

Greece retained its own self-government under Rome and so 'planet Athens' would be a Participating Democracy.

So in the real Empire, it mattered very much WHERE you were as to what government you experienced, independent of what style of central government existed.

I obviously really like this mix and match approach to things as it gives background and motivation to Big Stories, and reconciling the central and local style makes for unique 'how does this work' setting generation.

Don't forget the other major element, the Law Level. Gives a definite number to how corrupt/overbearing the government is in daily life.

Could also yield what life and law is like for the privileged.

For instance, if you have law level 7 for a captive government (as experienced by the citizens) and the central government is a Non-Charismatic Dictator, add the difference and the high SOC people involved with the government live with law level 12.

Or same scenario and the central government is a Representative Democracy, then the high SOC people enjoy law level 5.

 

[epicenter00]

I remember a comment by someone working at GDW in some supplement saying that the United States of America could be defined in a number of ways. I think the example was something along the line that on the surface we'd say it was a Representative Democracy (4). However, opinions of a Civil Service Bureaucracy (8) or a Charismatic Oligarchy (C) have support, too. In addition, on a more cynical bent, government types of Self-Perpetuating Oligarchy (3), an Impersonal Bureaucracy (9), or even a Totalitarian Oligarchy (F) which can be supported by certain viewpoints.

So I tend to think that Travellers probably ignore government codes quite a bit. It's more of a GM tool. I've always thought that government should inform the GM on secondary effects instead of primary effects. Secondary effects might include things like how do visitors interface with the government? What kind of organs does the state use to enforce its laws (what are the police like, or do they have police?)? If there's a problem that is beyond the ability for an individual citizen to take care of, who does he or she turn to does the government actually provide services that a citizen can utilize and does a citizen feel confident using them? What is the atmosphere of the world's citizenry, are they sullen? Hopeless? Do they feel empowered and in charge but actually control nothing?

For instance, a nation could be technically be a Representative Democracy, but if the citizenry rarely vote for whatever reason, then the government type might be something different, for instance:

... if they have a technical bureaucracy assisted by expert systems so the effects of different leaders don't really influence citizens in their day to day lives Civil Service Bureaucracy (8) might be more apt.

... if the government has effectively been carved up by number of very wealthy and powerful interest groups who keep the citizenry confused and divided so they stay docile as they feel powerless, and thus requires few organs of state control, would probably be a Self-Perpetuating Oligarchy (3).

... if the world has poor infrastructure and the central government can't really influence things, even if the citizenry feel a part of their "nation-world" the decisions that matter are actually made at the local level by citizen councils would probably be a Participating Democracy instead.

 

[kilemall]

I remember a comment by someone working at GDW in some supplement saying that the United States of America could be defined in a number of ways. I think the example was something along the line that on the surface we'd say it was a Representative Democracy (4). However, opinions of a Civil Service Bureaucracy (8) or a Charismatic Oligarchy (C) have support, too. In addition, on a more cynical bent, government types of Self-Perpetuating Oligarchy (3), an Impersonal Bureaucracy (9), or even a Totalitarian Oligarchy (F) which can be supported by certain viewpoints.

So I tend to think that Travellers probably ignore government codes quite a bit. It's more of a GM tool. I've always thought that government should inform the GM on secondary effects instead of primary effects. Secondary effects might include things like how do visitors interface with the government? What kind of organs does the state use to enforce its laws (what are the police like, or do they have police?)? If there's a problem that is beyond the ability for an individual citizen to take care of, who does he or she turn to does the government actually provide services that a citizen can utilize and does a citizen feel confident using them? What is the atmosphere of the world's citizenry, are they sullen? Hopeless? Do they feel empowered and in charge but actually control nothing?

For instance, a nation could be technically be a Representative Democracy, but if the citizenry rarely vote for whatever reason, then the government type might be something different, for instance:

... if they have a technical bureaucracy assisted by expert systems so the effects of different leaders don't really influence citizens in their day to day lives Civil Service Bureaucracy (8) might be more apt.

... if the government has effectively been carved up by number of very wealthy and powerful interest groups who keep the citizenry confused and divided so they stay docile as they feel powerless, and thus requires few organs of state control, would probably be a Self-Perpetuating Oligarchy (3).

... if the world has poor infrastructure and the central government can't really influence things, even if the citizenry feel a part of their "nation-world" the decisions that matter are actually made at the local level by citizen councils would probably be a Participating Democracy instead.

Exactly right IMO.

A good test might be, what does it take to get say a speculative cargo exemption?

 

[ShapeShifter]

IMHO players just want to know what the chances are of them being thrown into prison upon arrival, summarily executed for sneezing*, and whether or not they may be armed as landing-parties without raising authoritative eyebrows.

If the system is under oppression, is the dominance of the semi-incompetent type as in the Empire of Star Wars, or are we talking a grim, grey Orwellian oppression?


_____________
*e.g. the fascist dictatorship on the Planet of the Pollen People.

 

[Adam Dray]

What players care about:

1. In what ways does this world immediately threaten the ship and the PCs?
2. In what ways does this world offer the PCs an opportunity for wealth or power?
3. In what ways does this world offer PCs opportunities for adventure?

"Threats" include big things like getting executed or jailed for breaking laws, but also small things like fines and delays.

"Opportunities for wealth and power" might mean legal channels, like jobs and markets, or illegal channels, like smuggling, contraband, and other ways you can make some money off the misfortunes of others.

"Opportunities for adventure" include helping oppressed populations, if the players are so inclined.

In general, think local rather than global. If the government is a huge fascist regime, make one or two local NPCs to demonstrate to the PCs the effects of that regime. Even representatives of the government might see the PC group as an opportunity to impress their superiors (or underlings!).

NPCs should seek out PCs and ask them for help, since the PCs often represent the "other." The travellers are off-worlders with little connection to this place, which puts them in an interesting position. They have special skills, few connections, teflon consequences, and often fluid ethics.

 

[ffilz]

What players care about:

1. In what ways does this world immediately threaten the ship and the PCs?
2. In what ways does this world offer the PCs an opportunity for wealth or power?
3. In what ways does this world offer PCs opportunities for adventure?

"Threats" include big things like getting executed or jailed for breaking laws, but also small things like fines and delays.

"Opportunities for wealth and power" might mean legal channels, like jobs and markets, or illegal channels, like smuggling, contraband, and other ways you can make some money off the misfortunes of others.

"Opportunities for adventure" include helping oppressed populations, if the players are so inclined.

In general, think local rather than global. If the government is a huge fascist regime, make one or two local NPCs to demonstrate to the PCs the effects of that regime. Even representatives of the government might see the PC group as an opportunity to impress their superiors (or underlings!).

NPCs should seek out PCs and ask them for help, since the PCs often represent the "other." The travellers are off-worlders with little connection to this place, which puts them in an interesting position. They have special skills, few connections, teflon consequences, and often fluid ethics.

This is a drill I need to remember... It's easy to get lost trying to work up some background stuff that doesn't actually hit these points, and that's part of where I get trapped.

The BITS 101 Governments supplement looks like it will really help me, for each sample government, it provides a "this is one way the government impacts the PCs" and another example adventure seed.

 

[kilemall]

What players care about:

1. In what ways does this world immediately threaten the ship and the PCs?
2. In what ways does this world offer the PCs an opportunity for wealth or power?
3. In what ways does this world offer PCs opportunities for adventure?

"Threats" include big things like getting executed or jailed for breaking laws, but also small things like fines and delays.

"Opportunities for wealth and power" might mean legal channels, like jobs and markets, or illegal channels, like smuggling, contraband, and other ways you can make some money off the misfortunes of others.

"Opportunities for adventure" include helping oppressed populations, if the players are so inclined.

In general, think local rather than global. If the government is a huge fascist regime, make one or two local NPCs to demonstrate to the PCs the effects of that regime. Even representatives of the government might see the PC group as an opportunity to impress their superiors (or underlings!).

NPCs should seek out PCs and ask them for help, since the PCs often represent the "other." The travellers are off-worlders with little connection to this place, which puts them in an interesting position. They have special skills, few connections, teflon consequences, and often fluid ethics.

Well thats' more law level and government type could be construed as 'style of oppression'.

Its' my contention that a Balkanized world with a LL of 7 to match could be quite a bit more troublesome for the players.

• Good chance of harassment
• High enough to effectively disarm them
• Bribery has a good chance of failure
• LOTS of temptation with various polities looking to get interstellar weapons/economic advantage

 

[BytePro]

UWPs support mapping, encounter and trade mechanics - not so much 'creating worlds'.

As an analogy, one can catalog book stats such that Traveller LBBs could be coded in a similar fashion as: digest sized, less than 100 pages, mostly text, science-fiction, gaming, 1970s genre. One cannot extrapolate the much about the subject matter (scouts vs high guard), much less rules of play from such basic stats.

Likewise, the UWPs are way too simple to appreciably flesh out fictional worlds. But, they do provide starting points.

Some resources that might help:

http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Universal_World_Profile
http://mu.org/~joe/traveller/archive/General/Worlds_and_Starports
http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Atmosphere
http://mu.org/~joe/traveller/archive/General/alien_atmospheres.txt