T5, LBB's and their lure...

[robapol]

I have many versions of Traveller, including the recently arrived Mongoose Traveller 2. These rules look very good to me, but for some reason don't 'feel' like Traveller.

It's not Mongoose's fault, I had exactly the same feeling with Mega-Traveller too...

When I think about why I play Classic Traveller so much, rather bizarrely, it's mostly down to the presentation. The way the books are written in a simple, concise and no nonsense way, the way that an entire universe is crammed into just three little books.

What's this got to do with T5?

I think that once T5 gets it's combat system sorted out it will be untouchable.

The current book is big, really BIG and contains a lot of ancillary information.

I think Marc, ought to release the T5 book with fixed combat mechanics, but issue it as some kind of advanced frame work. Maybe Advanced Traveller?

Then I think Marc should release three little black books, with the same book names as the original. These books would contain just enough from the T5 master book to enable players to play T5 with a similar scope as Classic Traveller. If the ref needs more he simply delves into his/her Advanced Traveller book.

The new LBBs would have enough equipment, weapons, vehicles and starships defined to run a Third Imperium Campaign. These books would not include any of the makers. These are the remit of the advanced book.

I think an updated set of little black books, with new modern rules based on T5 with a fixed combat system would sell like hotcakes. If all the supplements and adventures could be sold in the same format too, it would lure more players - simply because it is so different from the other RPG's out there.

btw having scenarios and supplements are sales multipliers. Everyone wants to see a rules system that has a healthy eco-system.

What do others think? Am I bonkers? Or is this absolutely the way to go?

 

[Timerover51]

No, and you are not bonkers. Something on the order of Starter Traveller or updated LBBs has been urged before.

Your point about supplements and equipment lists and scenarios/adventures is also spot on.

 

[David Johansen]

One Traveller Book equivalent would be my choice. It's easier to get 8.5 x 11 to print out properly.

I'd probably group ships and vehicles in one section and characters and equipment in another. GMing stuff and some setting / adventure material in a third.

I think the secret to success would be keeping the task system to a single page. You might slip as many as five more into the GMing section but one of T5's huge barriers is the Task chapter. It's great stuff but it's too scary for beginners.

Anyhow, I'm pretty sure Mongoose Traveller is the current starter Traveller and I don't think Marc is looking to undermine a profitable and successful venue for Traveller. So, I'm pretty sure the Player's book will be just that. The parts of T5 that are needed by the player and that's fine by me. It's nice to have a twenty dollar book to give people instead of a hundred dollar one.

 

[mike wightman]

I too am fondest of the LBB format, but I have to say that my most used CT item is the book of forms and charts from Starter Edition.

The '81 versions of LBB1-3 were all 48 pages long. Scouts and Robots had more pages, 54.

Imagine what you could put in the extra six pages of each LBB1-3 if you could edit T5 down to be as concise as the originals.

A deluxe set could be the three rulebooks, a book of forms and charts, an adventure or two with play aids (maps, deckplans and the like).

 

[kilemall]

Would you retain the Merc/HG split, or combine the two into a super Maker/advanced combat book?

 

[Daddicus]

As long as the rules don't change much from what we have now, the presentation doesn't matter to me.

However, for my gaming group, I would like to see a collection of smaller books, rather than one large one. That way, I as the ref could buy all the referee books, and the players could each buy their own players' books.

If he doesn't want to undermine Mongoose, let them publish it. Because I think it needs to be one unified system.

The biggest problem with CT was the layered rule set. You had to decide which books you were going to use in your campaign. Usually, people chose a contiguous set of numbers ("we're playing with LBBs 1-5"), but it all depended on which books your group (as a whole) bought.

I would rather see the whole thing available as a set of LBBs (or, medium BBs, or even, thinner BBBs). The format isn't important to me; it's much more important that the base system never changes.

It's odd: I'm more-or-less doing that myself right now. I've divided the 5.09 BBB into manageable segments, and I'm printing them for use gaming. But, I would MUCH rather buy published versions than print them myself. I'm using two-sided printing with two pages per side, so it's almost the same as a LBB would be. I'm just not folding them in the middle, but rather stapling along the long edge.

Heck, I've even thought of self-publishing them, but without any sales outlet (to other people). Basically, books published just for me and my group. (I don't want to run afoul of any copyright issues.) Probably too expensive, yet I HAVE seriously thought about it. But, if it were less than a grand, I would do it in a heartbeat.

 

[Daddicus]

More:

I guess the key to me is don't change it once publishing starts. Change only for errata, not as a way to incorporate new material. Have ALL of the material set up at the start, and divide up the publishing only to make it manageable.

The BBB could still be sold as-is. Some of the smaller tomes would have duplicated information, but it would all come from one common source.

That's the key for me: don't use extra books as a means of expanding the system. Have the whole system made, and only use tweaks.

For example, when Scouts came out, it changed the whole universe-building process. When Merchants came out, it changed trade. Don't do it that way. Don't make me change the way we play just because a new book came out.

T5 LBBs (for lack of a better name) should each be a subset of what is in the current 5.09 BBB (or whatever the final version is). Information about Scouts might be duplicated in a chargen book and a maps book (for example), but it wouldn't change.

EXCEPTION: Errata. If errors are found, they can be altered. Just not wholesale altering.

 

[mike wightman]

T5 has all the rules - apart from a couple of makers which were cut for space reasons.

What it doesn't have is a combat system that works or a ruthless edit.

Once T5 is finished, missing makers and all, then you can start splitting it into the different books:
player
referee
maker
Supplementary rules to T5 are not really needed, clarification, editing and a thorough playtest and revision are.
T5 v6 for 40th anniversary?

 

[aramis]

If he doesn't want to undermine Mongoose, let them publish it. Because I think it needs to be one unified system.

The original plan was for MGT to be T5 Lite. That's what Marc and Matt both said.

Somewhere, between 2007 and the 2008 alpha, Mongoose decided to ignore T5 and do it's own thing....

 

[Daddicus]

Oh, I wasn't thinking of giving them the property. Just the publication.

In the modern world, what's needed is ongoing publishing. In other words, say FFE published the BBB plus subsets of the same material:

• Referee's
• Player's
• Ships
• Trade
• Combat

Then, put out supplements that show ship designs, trade goods, sample colleges and universities, random patrons, etc. They would all be subsets of the original, although actual examples would be beyond the originals, but made WITHIN the original system.

Finally, keep these last ones (supplements) up to date. Resell them maybe annually with new ships, patrons, whatever. Even house rules, and how to fit them into the system. Make it a living encyclopedia. In other words, a subscription. Like Windows, Office, antivirus, etc.

This kind of system will keep the game alive far longer than any of us will be.

 

[David Johansen]

WAIT! HOLD ON! WHAT MAKERS WERE CUT?

Sorry, just a little excited.