• Welcome to the new COTI server. We've moved the Citizens to a new server. Please let us know in the COTI Website issue forum if you find any problems.

T5 Sandcasters

I was participating in THIS THREAD, so I thought I'd turn to T5 to see if Marc had cleared up some of the age-long questions about the defense system. I remember Loren Coleman, on these very boards, described sandcasters akin to depth charges, but didn't elaborate much more than that.

Then, there's been a ton of speculation over the years on how these things work. Is it a cloud that envelops the ship? If so, how can that much volume be contained in one missile-sized unit? Another speculation is that the sandcaster detects incoming laser fire then fires it's missile at the incoming beam, dispersing it. In older CT games, like Mayday and Book 2 combat, sand clouds would move along the battle map in a standard vector, and ships could maneuver in and out of them as the battle wore on.

One interesting idea I saw years ago was that the sand canister is actually a missile that consists of three parts: Guidance, Propulsion, and Payload, where the payload is multiple mini-canisters the size of your fist that are spread out in a cloud around the ship. When incoming laser fire is detected by the turret, a signal explodes the canisters, spreading the sand in the path of the laser fire.

So, I went to T5 to see if Marc had updated or expanded on any of the vague ideas we've had over the years on how sandcasters work. Unfortunately, he doesn't shed a lot of light on the subject. The T5 sandcasters seem to be point defense missiles that are fired at incoming laser beams.





One of the things I'm really starting to hate about T5 raised its ugly head during my search for information, and that is: It's damn hard to find any information easily about the game amongst its pages.

My search has left me with more questions, not answers.

Q1: How do the damn things work? Page 392 says that they project clouds of sand which obstruct incoming beam weapons. OK. Got it. How do they do that?



Q2: I got curious as to how they worked in T5 combat mechanically, so I investigated. I saw on page 390 that it was fired in "AB mode". What the hell is AB Mode? Page 386 tells me that there are four main types of weapons: missile, beam, data, and field. Logic tells me that a sandcaster must be a missile. On page 388, I see that slug throwers also have an AB Mod. So, I flip all the way over to the Starship Combat chapter (my answer was not in the How Weapons Work chapter), and I see, on page 406, that AB Mode means "Anti-Beam". OK, got it. But, my answered question led to another question--see page 413? Sandcasters fire in AB Mod out to Range 7 (Space Range 2), then it's a normal attack out to range 10 (Space Range 5)?



Q3: The AB attack task uses TL's. Does T5 keep up with different TL on different pieces of equipment, or is there just one TL for the entire ship? Unless there is just one TL for a ship, it sure seems difficult (a bookkeeping nightmare) to keep up with various TLs for various pieces of equipment on a ship--especially with the Ref and NPC vessels.



Q4: The AB task is: 1D < TL mod + Mount Mod. The TL mod is the difference in the Defender's TL and the Attacker's TL (again, hopefully for the entire ship--not Defender's sandcaster vs. Attacker's Laser Beam). Where do I get the Mount Mod?



Q5: I "think" the rules say that a successful AB attack by a sandcaster prevents any laser attack by the enemy. Is this true? You successfully fire your AB attack with your sandcaster, and that means the enemy cannot attack you at all with lasers?



Q6: Depending on the answer to Question 5 above, what does a successful standard attack get you? A success with a sandcaster at Range 9, for example? (Which isn't an AB attack.)





NOTE: I find T5 very frustrating because I go to the book for answers, and I end up with all these questions. It's a mess!
 
Well you can't just detect laser fire before it hits, It moves at the speed of light. What you can detect is active targeting sensors and LIDAR. In TNE every weapon had it's own targeting laser, so you might detect that.
 
Well you can't just detect laser fire before it hits, It moves at the speed of light. What you can detect is active targeting sensors and LIDAR. In TNE every weapon had it's own targeting laser, so you might detect that.

If I've read the T5 Sandcasting rule correctly--and I'm not sure that I have--then the sandcaster fires first, and if successful, blocks incoming beam weapons.

Putting aside the notion that I think 100% defense against beam weapons makes the sandcaster way too powerful (unless the chance of success is very low, so that it only happens occasionally), it seems that the sand cloud is fired as a shield to protect against later beam attacks.

That would make sense. Computer and sensors could easily predict firing arc from a vessel at any distance. Simply throw up a sand cloud on that incoming vector, like holding your thumb up to blot out the sun.
 
... it seems that the sand cloud is fired as a shield to protect against later beam attacks.

That would make sense. Computer and sensors could easily predict firing arc from a vessel at any distance. Simply throw up a sand cloud on that incoming vector, like holding your thumb up to blot out the sun.

The way it was described before was as a cloud of 'magnetic sand' - I know in MT the sandcasters had a power requirement of 1 MW - the sandcaster generates the magnetic field that drags most/some of the particles along with it. The enemy beam tries to punch the cloud and both beam and cloud ablates away.

So the cloud doesn't last long, and a sandcaster has a high rate of fire to replenish its cloud. But it's a trivial target solution - keep discharging sand to maintain the cloud between you and the ship firing at you.
 
So the cloud doesn't last long, and a sandcaster has a high rate of fire to replenish its cloud. But it's a trivial target solution - keep discharging sand to maintain the cloud between you and the ship firing at you.

High rate of fire? Is that in T5 somewhere?

I think it's a missile/canister and is limited to the number of canisters stored (like missiles).
 
High rate of fire? Is that in T5 somewhere?

I think it's a missile/canister and is limited to the number of canisters stored (like missiles).

Sorry, I've been working in MT lately.

In MegaTraveller, the rate of fire for missiles per space combat turn is 1, for sandcasters its 6 per turn.

In Traveller New Era, different tech level sandcaster turrets have different number of sand canisters at the ready. There's a task roll for a sand cloud to 'hit' an incoming beam which reduces the damage it causes but doesn't block it totally, and each time your sandcaster 'hits' the incoming fire, you have to discharge another canister to shore up the cloud.

Sandcasters get mentioned in T5, but I couldn't find anything specific about rates of fire. They're an AB system [anti-beam] and they work out until range band 7.
 
New era had the best (most plausible) description...
Aggressor pings target.
Target fires sand in direction of aggressor.
Hopefully, the small cluster of sand is on the line between the two ships.

Keep in mind: the sand doesn't need to stop the beam; it just needs to reduce the energy density enough to prevent penetration.
 
Q4: The AB task is: 1D < TL mod + Mount Mod. The TL mod is the difference in the Defender's TL and the Attacker's TL (again, hopefully for the entire ship--not Defender's sandcaster vs. Attacker's Laser Beam). Where do I get the Mount Mod?

The mount mod is it's quality rating, which is based on the TL the item is produced at. See p342 table B.

Simply put, Table A on that page lists Sandcasters as being available at TL9. If installed on a ship built at a higher TL, more advanced versions can be used. So a TL11 ship could have the Modified version, which provides a +2 Mount Mod.
 
Well, yeah but...

The mount mod is it's quality rating, which is based on the TL the item is produced at. See p342 table B.

Simply put, Table A on that page lists Sandcasters as being available at TL9. If installed on a ship built at a higher TL, more advanced versions can be used. So a TL11 ship could have the Modified version, which provides a +2 Mount Mod.
While you are correct about Quality affecting TN as a positive Mod, there are base Mount Mods listed in the ACS chapter. At work so no books, but I seem to recall it has Triple Turrets (all the same weapon) are the base with a Mod 0. Barbettes have better Mods, Dual and Single Turrets (which is how the old LSM turret functions) have worse (base) ones.
 
Back
Top