Tapping and Psi Strength

[PsiTraveller]

If a Psion has the Tapping Talent (pg 68-69), can they gain more Psi Points than they normally have?

Suppose they have 10 Psi Strength normally, and are rested and at full Points and decides to Tap his Strength for 2 points. Is his new Psi Strength 12 or are the points wasted since he can only have 10 at any given time?

For the Tap Others Talent, can the points pulled from others be stored in a K Vault?
E.G. A Psion with a Psi Strength of 10 puts 9 points into a large K Vault. He then grabs prisoners and drains them sequentially of stats until he has 10 points of Psi Strength, then puts those into the K Vault. Technically they come from the Psion, despite the vampiric origin.

 

[Spinward Scout]

Just to let you know, Psionics are a bit hit-and-miss around here. That being said, please don't let that keep you from posting. There could always be someone interested in what you're putting up for discussion. I post psionic stuff and don't expect many people to reply, but I keep doing it just in case someone goes looking for what I'm posting.

I think Psionics are awesome, but I don't know enough about that Tapping Talent to comment.

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

I'm interested in psionic, as I think it adds a little something to the setting. you should never have everything be explained, because sci-fi is often at its best when dealing with mysteries.

to answer the question, I don't know anything about this power (is it form the Pison Career book?) so I don't know the exact wording of the rules, but for me, this comes down to a "GM's Ruling". I'd say you could not exceed your psi stat, but I know people who might rule otherwise, or rule you can, but you suffer damage form the stress of having too much power in your body.

for the Tap others thing, I'd allow you to store someone else Psi talent in a K-vault (again, not familiar with the item, but I'm guessing it's some sort of "Psi-battery"). that would allow intresting RP situations were a NPC could volunteer his psi points to the character to help him complete a task, or a government where low-level or low power psionics have to give up their daily psi points to help power their leaders.....

 

[McPerth]

to answer the question, I don't know anything about this power (is it form the Pison Career book?) so I don't know the exact wording of the rules, but for me, this comes down to a "GM's Ruling". I'd say you could not exceed your psi stat, but I know people who might rule otherwise, or rule you can, but you suffer damage form the stress of having too much power in your body.

for the Tap others thing, I'd allow you to store someone else Psi talent in a K-vault (again, not familiar with the item, but I'm guessing it's some sort of "Psi-battery"). that would allow intresting RP situations were a NPC could volunteer his psi points to the character to help him complete a task, or a government where low-level or low power psionics have to give up their daily psi points to help power their leaders.....

See that this kind of collaboration can be quite useful in a society as Zhodani, where a low psi noble (noble by inheritance, but unable to do much by himself) can help his intendant aide, who has higher psi rating, to accomplish something that neither of them can do alone, for greater good of the society.

This would give greater sense to low psi nobles, usually hereditary, in Zhodani society.

And of course, reverse case may also occur, if the noble has high psi rating, he will be able to do much more if he can be so boosted by his intendant aides.

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

can you use a K vault created by someone else (i.e. psion A puts his power into a K vault, then gives it to Psion B to use)? Or can you only use a vault made by yourself?

If anyone can use them, then these vaults could become a valuable resource you could trade like any other. Psions with the skill to make these vaults could make a living turning out these "psi Batteries", which can be brought on the open market. I don't know how easy these things are to make, or how many a guy can make a day, but I can imagine that the supply would be fairly low, and so the pre unit price quite high.


It would be a lot like mana potions in many fantasy settings.


dammit, know I want to buy Psion as well as all those other traveller books......

 

[PsiTraveller]

After thinking about it I realized that if a Psion could use the Tapping Talent and gain points above the normal max this could create huge issues.

ASsume a Psion has Endurance +1 DM. Under active conditions they can recover 1 + the End DM for a total of 2 points per day. WIth bed rest they can recover d6 + the End DM.
So if in a Jump they Tapped Str and Dex for 4 days in a row they could recover 16 points on average, or 8 if busy. This could double or triple their Psi Strength. This could create game balance issues.

It would be nice to bank up a lot of points and then be able to get a huge DM bonus on Psi Strength when using a power later. As a player that would be excellent.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Suppose they have 10 Psi Strength normally, and are rested and at full Points and decides to Tap his Strength for 2 points. Is his new Psi Strength 12 or are the points wasted since he can only have 10 at any given time?

I'd say 12 because the wording is "augment their Psionic Strength"

I'm not aware of any information as to how long this lasts - anyone?

Note that while this is a useful ability, a nice high psi strength for a DM to help ensure success or to perform things you may not have the strength for but the psi still has the same limits for how often they can use their abilities which is based on INT and not Psi strength. There is also the section on

"MENTAL OR EMOTIONAL EXPERIENCE, EXPOSURE TO STRESS
These are circumstances where the Referee must adjudicate. "

One could say that exceeding your max psi strength falls under this.

For the Tap Others Talent, can the points pulled from others be stored in a K Vault?

I'd say no.

As written, the psi "filling" the vault does not lose or use their actual psi strength. "The Psi points stored in the battery are generated by psions themselves during resting periods." "the psion can direct Psi points into the battery as they are regenerated" Although there are ways to modify this, I'd say normal charging of a K-vault would be at the same rate as normal recovery of psi strength points: "one point per hour, beginning three hours after the character last used a psionic talent.

can you use a K vault created by someone else (i.e. psion A puts his power into a K vault, then gives it to Psion B to use)? Or can you only use a vault made by yourself?

Yes and no.

Yes one person can use another psi's vault.

No, as it's not something that is carried around. The K-vault falls under the section on ship equipment. The smallest K-vault is 1dt. I believe to create or use one requires special ship based equipment including a PIC with K Interface and, of course, the vault itself.

 

[rancke]

CT had some rules for using psi drugs to add to psionic strength temporarily. Perhaps there are useful rules for how long the effects last to be found there. (It's been so long that I can't recall the details).


Hans

 

[aramis]

CT had some rules for using psi drugs to add to psionic strength temporarily. Perhaps there are useful rules for how long the effects last to be found there. (It's been so long that I can't recall the details).


Hans

Special lasts 4 hours at 15, plus it goes up 1 point per hour to get there, then back down 1 per hour. So, if you just need 1 more, it's 2*(15-PSR)+4 hours.

The others last 1 hour.

 

[PsiTraveller]

The issue I thought of after my first post is the storing of a massive number of points from using Tapping on a daily basis if the Psion is taking Str and Dex from himself. This could result in having 20 or 30 extra points in a week (while in Jump Space for example).

Now this requires not using Psionic points during that time, but in Jump Space you probably do not have to.

When they get to their destination they have a huge pool of Psi points. This could alter game balance.
On the opposite side what if the GM has a Psion who has done that for days and the party Psion has not. Any Psychic combat will be a problem.

Vampiric Tapping using other people can be worse depending on the moral limits of the group, or the GM if it is describing the actions of an NPC.
A Psion captures a group of prisoner (Pirates in space for example). Rather than take slaves or just kill the crew the Psion first Taps them all for Psi Strength points. A handful of people could give him dozens of points. It may take him several minutes, but since they are captives they have no say in the matter.

As a plot device for the villain character it is interesting and dark, but imagine dealing with a Psion player character who starts an adventure with 40 Psi Points. He would be able to use his powers far more often then normal

 

[Spinward Scout]

As a plot device for the villain character it is interesting and dark, but imagine dealing with a Psion player character who starts an adventure with 40 Psi Points. He would be able to use his powers far more often then normal

The character I play in the play-by-post has a PSR of 13. If he takes Extra Special and survives or whatever and gets 12 points and also has a Personal Psionic Battery with 10 points, he's walking into an encounter with 35 points to burn.

 

[rancke]

The character I play in the play-by-post has a PSR of 13. If he takes Extra Special and survives or whatever and gets 12 points and also has a Personal Psionic Battery with 10 points, he's walking into an encounter with 35 points to burn.

I thought personal psi strength was capped at 15?


Hans

 

[McPerth]

The issue I thought of after my first post is the storing of a massive number of points from using Tapping on a daily basis if the Psion is taking Str and Dex from himself. This could result in having 20 or 30 extra points in a week (while in Jump Space for example).

Now this requires not using Psionic points during that time, but in Jump Space you probably do not have to.

When they get to their destination they have a huge pool of Psi points. This could alter game balance.
On the opposite side what if the GM has a Psion who has done that for days and the party Psion has not. Any Psychic combat will be a problem.

Vampiric Tapping using other people can be worse depending on the moral limits of the group, or the GM if it is describing the actions of an NPC.
A Psion captures a group of prisoner (Pirates in space for example). Rather than take slaves or just kill the crew the Psion first Taps them all for Psi Strength points. A handful of people could give him dozens of points. It may take him several minutes, but since they are captives they have no say in the matter.

As a plot device for the villain character it is interesting and dark, but imagine dealing with a Psion player character who starts an adventure with 40 Psi Points. He would be able to use his powers far more often then normal

Now imagine the disruption an elite Zhodani Consular Guard or scramblers (choosen for this capacity) could produce with that many psi points to spend...

That's why I said I guess this is routinely done by selected Zhodani individuals or units (as selected as this ability is rare, but suely hand picked).

 

[CosmicGamer]

they have a huge pool of Psi points. This could alter game balance.

Not sure what inherent balance problem there is? Psi's naturally have different psi strength and from another perspective this could be seen as a balancing mechanism for a weaker psi. That said, the book does describe it as "a powerful and feared talent".

As I mentioned earlier, there are still the same limits to how often one can use their psi abilities. An unspecified time as to how long the increased psi strength last - up to GM and play group. There are also penalties that can be imposed that are not specific but mentioned for the GMs to apply as they feel necessary. Like the generic "apply DMs applicable to the situation", the rules under psionic trauma state vague "circumstances where the Referee must adjudicate". So one could dictate that stressful situations like boosting psi strength beyond a certain point *1, or other things *2, could possibly (roll needed) or definitively cause trauma. Some guidelines provided in the rules but lots of GM discretion allowed here also allows settings rules to define things in greater detail.

*1 - One GM might say any psi boost over 15. Another GM might say any psi boot that exceeds 2 times the psi's normal psi strength. Another GM might say there is possible trauma when the psi boost exceeds the psi's normal psi+int values. How about any boost beyond ones normal psi strength is an event with an intensity (see psion book section on trauma) equal to the amount exceeding the psi's normal max psi strength. And so on... This can be adjusted based on game setting (star wars jedi vs star trek vulcan) and play group desires.

*2 - just another of many possibilities off the top of my head. A psi can not use more than their normal psi strength at any one time without possible trauma.

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

for the record, I'd play it as:

can have up to Psi stat in points no problem. after that you need to roll to avoid damage form "stressing your system" or some such. I'd go for 2d6, Plus you unmodified PSI bonus, minus 1 for every three points over your psi stat your going (i.e. every time your ability mod would go up), with damage being equal to the Effect if negative.

I.E the Psion has a Psi stat of 9 (+1). hes trying to add 4 points, so he rolls 2d6+1-1, or just 2d6. he gets a 6, so suffers 2 points of damage for missing the target number of 8.


this way lets you "overclock" a little with only a minor risk, lets stronger psions overclock more safely or with more power, works with the existing mechanics of Effect for degrees of success.

 

[PsiTraveller]

The game balance hinges on a few points (imo) How many points can be stored, do they degrade over time like a psi battery, do they cause trauma, how many can be spent at once, is there a 15 point cap etc. The fewer the limits the more outrageous the abuses might be.

I am thinking of things like pumping points into Body Armour to gain huge armour bonuses, boosting Str and End to racial maximum or being amazingly aware of his surroundings.

A large amount of points could allow Telekinetic attacks at range, or the lifting of very heavy objects.

Psychic Assaults are very costly, but if a Psion has the points to spare he could disable multiple targets with ease.

Paralysis, Pain abilities cost range points and can be expensive. This is not an issue with a large reserve available.

From a shipping perspective can the Drive Augmentation skill be used to boost a Jump 1 trading ship to Jump 6 while carrying cargo? Folding Space has the high speed transit time option, so a Jump1 or 2 ship could finish a jump in 2 days for 10 points. Forget the 2 jumps a month average, try paying off a trading ship jumping twice a week.

Vampire Fleets takes on a whole new meaning. Forget the New Era.

 

[Spinward Scout]

I thought personal psi strength was capped at 15?

Depends on the system you use. With Book 4: Psion, one of the options is 2.5 times normal PSR - or if the normal highest PSR is 15 then 37.5 is the cap.