TL16+ Darrian Starships?

[AlHazred]

Has anyone done any writeups of TL16 (or higher?) Darrian starships? I'm not aware of any, and as my PCs are going to be in Swords Worlds space, I'm considering what sort of ships Darrian fields in their "relic" navy...

Canonicity is not important, just curious what others have used. CT Book 2 is probably not enough, unless you back-converted material from MT, I suppose...

 

[whartung]

Does the ruleset really matter? I would think it's more about "what about the TL-16-ness of the ships makes them stand out"?

Do they have Big-O-Beams? Computer-10? Agility-7? Are you planning on fighting them, letting the players fight with them?

Or is it just narrative as they explore a intact, but, for some reason, not function relic of a ship?

 

[mike wightman]

Many years ago I did the T20 conversion of the TNE "Darrian" Barekdoldin

Thread 'Barekdoldin-Class Darrian Patrol Cruiser'

Dec 31, 2003

A long time ago I promised more TNE to T20 ship conversions. Here's one I just had to give a go.

hull- 500t streamlined cylinder, SI- 160, AC-24

armour #6- 35t, with chameleon coating
(to represent EMM)

bridge- 20t

10fib computer- 17.2t, 15EP
consisting model 10 computer, sensors and comms, model 2 avionics and model 9 maser comms

jump 4- 25t, 20EP

maneuver 6- 85t, 30EP (+30EP for agility-6)

TL16 powerplant- 29t, generates 87 EPs

200t jump fuel, 29t powerplant fuel, fuel scoops

Fuel purification- 2t

1xTL16 PA turret- 2t, 5EP
(1x#3 battery)

2xTL16 tpl beam laser turrets- 2t, 6EP...

• mike wightman
• Replies: 11
• Forum: The Fleet

I could take a stab at converting it to a different rule set.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Has anyone done any writeups of TL16 (or higher?) Darrian starships? I'm not aware of any

Even CT AM8 Darrians declined to provide ANY specifically Darrian starship designs.

However, this snippet from pages pages 16-17 might help.

I'd like to know HOW any kind of "feedback and sharing of designs between Terra and Darrian" might be practical ... especially @ J2 "trade route" speeds.

According to Travellermap using the route planner @ J2:

317 parsecs -- 170 jumps
* Terra (Solomani Rim 1827)
Jump 2 to
* Barnard (Solomani Rim 1926)
Jump 2 to
* Agidda (Solomani Rim 1824)
Jump 2 to
* Nusku (Solomani Rim 1822)
Jump 2 to
* Apishal (Solomani Rim 1622)
Jump 1 to
* Zaggisi (Solomani Rim 1523)
Jump 2 to
* Shulgi (Solomani Rim 1324)
Jump 2 to
* Dingir (Solomani Rim 1222)
Jump 2 to
* Herakles (Solomani Rim 1022)
Jump 2 to
* Oudh (Solomani Rim 0921)
Jump 2 to
* Thars (Solomani Rim 0720)
Jump 2 to
* Stralsund (Solomani Rim 0618)
Jump 1 to
* Arukhur (Solomani Rim 0518)
Jump 2 to
* Bemidshii (Solomani Rim 0317)
Jump 2 to
* Desdemona (Solomani Rim 0215)
Jump 2 to
* Kanamsa (Magyar 3214)
Jump 2 to
* Curson (Magyar 3113)
Jump 2 to
* Gyurenek (Magyar 2912)
Jump 2 to
* Waldrin (Magyar 2910)
Jump 2 to
* Kleug (Magyar 2908)
Jump 2 to
* Garner's Luck (Magyar 2906)
Jump 2 to
* Anise (Magyar 2904)
Jump 1 to
* Gadarur (Magyar 2903)
Jump 2 to
* Sweet (Magyar 2901)
Jump 2 to
* Whistler (Daibei 2939)
Jump 2 to
* Black Tusk (Daibei 2937)
Jump 2 to
* Orvon (Daibei 2935)
Jump 2 to
* Clusium (Daibei 2833)
Jump 1 to
* Purgatory (Daibei 2832)
Jump 2 to
* Galliano (Daibei 2830)
Jump 2 to
* Saturna (Daibei 2828)
Jump 2 to
* Helena (Daibei 2627)
Jump 1 to
* Paris (Daibei 2626)
Jump 2 to
* St. Sebastien (Daibei 2624)
Jump 2 to
* Carnivora (Daibei 2622)
Jump 1 to
* Dharma (Daibei 2621)
Jump 2 to
* Durgaarurkim (Daibei 2720)
Jump 2 to
* Conda (Daibei 2718)
Jump 2 to
* Salla (Daibei 2716)
Jump 2 to
* Rendroch (Daibei 2714)
Jump 1 to
* Yarfeg (Daibei 2713)
Jump 2 to
* Locu (Daibei 2611)
Jump 2 to
* Maiiu (Daibei 2410)
Jump 2 to
* Zelda (Daibei 2408)
Jump 2 to
* Ravkovic (Daibei 2406)
Jump 2 to
* Giinaca (Daibei 2404)
Jump 2 to
* Dibnah (Daibei 2303)
Jump 2 to
* Seddon (Daibei 2301)
Jump 2 to
* Transcorium (Zarushagar 2339)
Jump 1 to
* Apa (Zarushagar 2338)
Jump 2 to
* Disi (Zarushagar 2436)
Jump 2 to
* Udiid (Zarushagar 2335)
Jump 2 to
* Lauma (Zarushagar 2333)
Jump 2 to
* Quode (Zarushagar 2331)
Jump 1 to
* Adni (Zarushagar 2330)
Jump 2 to
* Yeara (Zarushagar 2328)
Jump 2 to
* Hentier (Zarushagar 2426)
Jump 2 to
* Cossor (Zarushagar 2424)
Jump 2 to
* Skaob-Heti (Zarushagar 2422)
Jump 2 to
* Schmidt (Zarushagar 2420)
Jump 2 to
* Dishere (Zarushagar 2219)
Jump 2 to
* Lone Star (Zarushagar 2217)
Jump 1 to
* Port Artemus (Zarushagar 2216)
Jump 2 to
* Xaff (Zarushagar 2214)
Jump 2 to
* Epshu (Zarushagar 2113)
Jump 2 to
* Kaixi (Zarushagar 2111)
Jump 2 to
* Westminster (Zarushagar 2009)
Jump 2 to
* Tinskeep (Zarushagar 1908)
Jump 2 to
* Hypaethral (Zarushagar 1906)
Jump 2 to
* Al Mansur (Zarushagar 1904)
Jump 2 to
* Fen (Zarushagar 1802)
Jump 2 to
* Mashuu (Dagudashaag 1840)
Jump 1 to
* Uki (Dagudashaag 1839)
Jump 2 to
* Zish (Dagudashaag 1638)
Jump 2 to
* Shulasgu (Dagudashaag 1636)
Jump 1 to
* Sh'si (Dagudashaag 1635)
Jump 2 to
* Anomaly (Dagudashaag 1633)
Jump 2 to
* Gaesh (Dagudashaag 1631)
Jump 2 to
* Cr'cpuc (Dagudashaag 1530)
Jump 2 to
* Calobrur (Dagudashaag 1528)
Jump 2 to
* Larsen (Dagudashaag 1526)
Jump 2 to
* Omegindus (Dagudashaag 1424)
Jump 2 to
* Nurashimu (Dagudashaag 1223)
Jump 1 to
* Ispumer (Dagudashaag 1222)
Jump 2 to
* Katris (Dagudashaag 1220)
Jump 2 to
* Lasiimshim (Dagudashaag 1218)
Jump 2 to
* Antioch (Dagudashaag 1117)
Jump 2 to
* Nox (Dagudashaag 1115)
Jump 2 to
* Laruu (Dagudashaag 1113)
Jump 2 to
* Lamadii (Dagudashaag 1011)
Jump 2 to
* Kii'Kii (Dagudashaag 1110)
Jump 2 to
* Asashluu (Dagudashaag 1108)
Jump 2 to
* Mirkigli (Dagudashaag 1206)
Jump 2 to
* Ziruushda (Dagudashaag 1204)
Jump 2 to
* Miam (Dagudashaag 1202)
Jump 2 to
* Nelson (Vland 1240)
Jump 2 to
* Iplukaddesh (Vland 1238)
Jump 2 to
* Fymur (Vland 1236)
Jump 2 to
* Dakeshir (Vland 1435)
Jump 2 to
* Senkon (Vland 1534)
Jump 2 to
* Imdur (Vland 1632)
Jump 2 to
* Kanoka (Vland 1630)
Jump 2 to
* Akumid (Vland 1628)
Jump 2 to
* Lalazim (Vland 1626)
Jump 1 to
* Bashimus (Vland 1625)
Jump 2 to
* Etsur (Vland 1623)
Jump 2 to
* Kasear (Vland 1822)
Jump 2 to
* Kha (Vland 1820)
Jump 2 to
* Sazisi (Vland 1719)
Jump 2 to
* Vland (Vland 1717)
Jump 2 to
* Duam (Vland 1516)
Jump 2 to
* Centra (Vland 1414)
Jump 2 to
* Karka (Vland 1412)
Jump 2 to
* Gagzoe (Vland 1211)
Jump 2 to
* Liwar (Vland 1110)
Jump 2 to
* Jiinasha (Vland 0909)
Jump 2 to
* Voskhod (Vland 0708)
Jump 2 to
* Arfaan (Vland 0508)
Jump 1 to
* Shaddukan (Vland 0408)
Jump 2 to
* Lankhi (Vland 0209)
Jump 2 to
* R'tinh Kills (Corridor 3209)
Jump 2 to
* Habretic (Corridor 3010)
Jump 2 to
* Atudew (Corridor 2810)
Jump 2 to
* Mee (Corridor 2611)
Jump 1 to
* Naagasa (Corridor 2511)
Jump 2 to
* Hishumaki (Corridor 2311)
Jump 2 to
* Darkmoon (Corridor 2111)
Jump 2 to
* Enrick Down (Corridor 1912)
Jump 2 to
* Denlaar (Corridor 1713)
Jump 2 to
* Justends Four (Corridor 1514)
Jump 1 to
* Itasis (Corridor 1413)
Jump 2 to
* Vigh (Corridor 1213)
Jump 2 to
* Demick (Corridor 1013)
Jump 1 to
* Heald (Corridor 0913)
Jump 2 to
* Teras (Corridor 0714)
Jump 2 to
* Kumorie (Corridor 0513)
Jump 2 to
* Muugagen (Corridor 0312)
Jump 2 to
* Aga Sugek (Corridor 0113)
Jump 1 to
* Salaam (Deneb 3213)
Jump 2 to
* Ivora (Deneb 3013)
Jump 2 to
* Doho (Deneb 2813)
Jump 2 to
* Dophkah (Deneb 2715)
Jump 2 to
* Kasmar (Deneb 2515)
Jump 2 to
* Giikusu (Deneb 2316)
Jump 2 to
* Cunha (Deneb 2117)
Jump 2 to
* Shinorasus (Deneb 1918)
Jump 2 to
* Polizzi (Deneb 1719)
Jump 1 to
* Neopidan (Deneb 1619)
Jump 2 to
* Quebraco (Deneb 1420)
Jump 2 to
* Peres (Deneb 1221)
Jump 1 to
* Vincennes (Deneb 1122)
Jump 2 to
* Irumunu (Deneb 1023)
Jump 2 to
* Tlaza (Deneb 0824)
Jump 2 to
* Araa (Deneb 0623)
Jump 2 to
* Rouenet (Deneb 0422)
Jump 2 to
* Daumier (Deneb 0223)
Jump 2 to
* Dojodo (Spinward Marches 3223)
Jump 2 to
* Jokotre (Spinward Marches 3024)
Jump 2 to
* Catuz (Spinward Marches 2824)
Jump 2 to
* Mercury (Spinward Marches 2624)
Jump 2 to
* Gandr (Spinward Marches 2425)
Jump 2 to
* Carse (Spinward Marches 2224)
Jump 2 to
* Derchon (Spinward Marches 2024)
Jump 2 to
* Zaibon (Spinward Marches 1825)
Jump 2 to
* Iron (Spinward Marches 1626)
Jump 1 to
* Biter (Spinward Marches 1526)
Jump 2 to
* Sacnoth (Spinward Marches 1325)
Jump 2 to
* Orcrist (Spinward Marches 1126)
Jump 2 to
* Narsil (Spinward Marches 0927)
Jump 2 to
* Spume (Spinward Marches 0727)
Jump 1 to
* Darrian (Spinward Marches 0627)

Now I don't know how anyone else feels about the subject, but the idea that Darrian/Darrian/Spinward Marches and Terra/Sol/Solomani Rim could possibly be doing any kind of "useful collaboration" on starship designs with that kind of "network lag" on commercial trade between the two star systems (170 jumps is effectively 7 years one way @ J2! ) doesn't even pass the "useful in our lifetimes" test for collaboration between colleagues. Waiting 14+ years for a reply to your first inquiry does not seem to be "timely" by any stretch of the imagination.

For your purposes, assume that Darrian (native) ship designs will probably be TL=13 and that TL=15 ships are imperial imports (probably from Glisten, Mora or Trin) and that they "don't need" J4 capability, because J3 is "sufficient" for the purposes of most Darrian starship designs (see: Travellermap).

 

[mike wightman]

Which rules would you like to see the Barekdoldin converted to?

 

[AlHazred]

Even CT AM8 Darrians declined to provide ANY specifically Darrian starship designs.

However, this snippet from pages pages 16-17 might help.

I'd like to know HOW any kind of "feedback and sharing of designs between Terra and Darrian" might be practical ... especially @ J2 "trade route" speeds.

MGP's Aliens of Charted Space 3 has a more, er, "rationalized" history of the Darrians.

 

[AlHazred]

Does the ruleset really matter? I would think it's more about "what about the TL-16-ness of the ships makes them stand out"?

Do they have Big-O-Beams? Computer-10? Agility-7? Are you planning on fighting them, letting the players fight with them?

Or is it just narrative as they explore a intact, but, for some reason, not function relic of a ship?

I mean, that's fair. But I'm interested if people have already done up their own Darrian TL16 vessels; by MT, there were rules to do it, and FFE for TNE gave even more options. I'm open also for GT ships, I'm not particular! If you've made Darrian ships for your game, I want to see what you came up with!

Which rules would you like to see the Barekdoldin converted to?

I'll be using Traveller Hero (6th edition Hero), but I am an Old Gamer who can convert between systems pretty well. I'm happy to have the Barekdoldin stats.

I'm a little surprised nobody's come up with stats for the Rhathzelmes from the Beltstrike box over the intervening 40 years! Sure, it was derelict in the adventure in 1110, but T4 introduced Milieus, making it feasible to encounter it before it became derelict!

 

[McPerth]

Not specifically described there, but maybe this old thread may help you.

Or it may just raise more questions, as there's much discussion and few results on it, though...

 

[Rupert]

From the Regency Sourcebook (for TNE):


Basically, in something like LBB5.80 (High Guard), they can be called 'TL15'. MT is more generous, with most weapons getting +1 UCP from TL15 to TL16.

 

[AlHazred]

From the Regency Sourcebook (for TNE):
View attachment 5960

Basically, in something like LBB5.80 (High Guard), they can be called 'TL15'. MT is more generous, with most weapons getting +1 UCP from TL15 to TL16.

Okay, do you have a writeup of such an "incrementally advanced" ship? I checked the forums extensively before asking the question, and I've seen a lot of discussion regarding feasibility, and very little in the way of actual writeups...

 

[mike wightman]

I used the rules in megaTraveller and TNE to get the numbers I used for the T20 conversions.
MegaTraveller to HG80 is pretty straightforward.

I may have done a thread about it...

 

[McPerth]

MgT TTE AM3: Darrian gives a very somere description of its characteristics, but, frankly, I don't swallow it.

As many other parts of the book, it gives quite fantastic TL16 items that are, IMHO, too overpowered and inconsistent with former Traveller...

 

[mike wightman]

I'm a little surprised nobody's come up with stats for the Rhathzelmes from the Beltstrike box over the intervening 40 years! Sure, it was derelict in the adventure in 1110, but T4 introduced Milieus, making it feasible to encounter it before it became derelict!

The 300t 20 man survey ship...

pretty sure I did a LBB:2 or HG version of it way back when.

 

[mike wightman]

HG TL16 additions for HG:80
bridge 1% of hull or 10t minimum
power plant TL16, 0.5
100t bay: missile #B, PAW #A, repulsor#A, meson 'B, tractor #2
50t bay: missile #A, PAW #6, fusion gun #A, repulsor #7, meson #6
turrets: lasers +1 USP, PAW 2 tons +1 USP, plasma +1 USP, sandcaster +1 USP
manipulator barbette 5t MCr 5, EP 5
nuclear damper #A 15t, MCr60, 100EP
meson screen #A 30t, MCr 70, EP *2.0
computer
model A 15t, MCr 170, 50/100, EP 15
model Afib 30t, MCr 250, 50/100, EP 15

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Has anyone done any writeups of TL16 (or higher?) Darrian starships? I'm not aware of any, and as my PCs are going to be in Swords Worlds space, I'm considering what sort of ships Darrian fields in their "relic" navy...

By AM8 they have "a few" relics, carefully kept hidden from spying eyes (and even that may be a ruse). Your players are exceedingly unlikely to encounter them in the Sword Worlds, or even in Darrian territory. The Darrians are generally TL-13 IIRC.

As to what the ships are, that's anyones guess. They should probably be enough to affect a major battle, even if only as spyships. The Barekdoldin is not a relic, but a 1200 era new-build.


LBB5 + TL-16 tech from MT should work without too much problem. Better computers and screens are the biggest change. J-7 is reasonable. Slightly better weapons and power plants.

LBB2 just doesn't have the concept of TL advantage at that level. LBB2 TL advantage is hidden in the Drive Potential Table, allowing bigger ships and bigger are more efficient. You would have to extend the Drive Potential and Drive Tables to get bigger ships that are more efficient. The combat advantage would be negligible.

MT and later systems can do TL-16 ships, no problems.

 

[mike wightman]

The Barekdoldin was a new build based on a recovered TL16 darrian ships. Was it a direct copy of any of them? No idea.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

The Barekdoldin was a new build based on a recovered TL16 darrian ships. Was it a direct copy of any of them? No idea.

Agreed, I don't know either.

This vaguely hints that it's not a copy of an relic:

RS, p92:
These ships are derived from old Darrian designs, but incorporate experimental fittings developed in conjunction with Regency engineers which are fitted for trial.

 

[AlHazred]

Your players are exceedingly unlikely to encounter them in the Sword Worlds, or even in Darrian territory.

My players are incredibly unlikely to encounter them in the Sword Worlds by chance. However, their patron is an Intelligence Branch Scout Administrator who wants them to Go In And Kick The Hornets' Nests, and that has a tendency to upset previously-laid plans for secrecy...

 

[mike wightman]

That implies to me that the Impies were given access to many Darrian TL16 ships - maybe they started by revisiting the 300t Rhathzelmes is a good place to start considering the barekdoldin is just a bit larger than a Patrol Cruiser or Gazelle. We know some of the Darrian TL16 "warships" are actually ex-merchants re-fitted with weapons.

A purely CT design would have to have house rules aplenty - you have mentioned the drive potential table needing an extension - but that wouldn't help improve the drives on the TL16 500t or 300t ships.

The LBB:3 TL chart gives us - disintegrators and matter transport - so equip LBB:2 TL16 Darrian warships with disintegrators and "matter transported" missile warheads?

A significant change and purely a house rule is to reduce the bridge to 10t minimum or 1% for ships over 1000t

I really would have liked a LBB:2 warships supplement - an no High Guard isn't it IMHO. I want LBB:2 rules for military drives, barbettes, PAWS, bays, armour, screens, energy weapons, meson guns.

I'm almost tempted to pitch it to MgT as their next LBB after 9 Pirates.

LBB:10 Warships, rules additions for LBB:2 covering military add ons, expanded sensor rules, SS:3, combat options, planetary navies, subsector navies, larger polity navies. TLs beyond 15... (and less than 9)

 

[AlHazred]

I'm almost tempted to pitch it to MgT as their next LBB after 9 Pirates.

You should! The original books basically just assumed "Star Trek" technology for stuff above TL15, and only later decided on smooth progression. IIRC, the early, early books called Ancients tech TL16, and only later did it become "TL 25" and then even later get a smoother gradient of technological development.