Type S in Service

[CarlP]

I have a question that I've wondered about for some time, and this is probably the group that could put my questions to rest.

I've seen in the description of the Type S Scout that when it is made available for detached service, it gets its high-powered avionics stripped out, and a standard Model/1 computer installed. What I'm wondering is, what would the scout look like when in service? Specifically, my two main questions are, what type of computer is carried when it's in service, how much more equipment does it carry (sensors, survey equipment, etc.), and where does the tonnage come from for this extra equipment? I'm wondering if the Type S in service might not have four full staterooms available as living quarters, but instead might have one or more of them taken up with this equipment.

So, what do y'all think on this issue? Is there anything official that's ever been published about this? If not, I'm willing to entertain your speculative comments. Thanks.

carl

 

[Falkayn]

Well putting in a Model/9 computer with Sensors/9 takes up an extra 3.2 tons, so you could either get that by sacrificing a stateroom, or by giving up some cargo space. Given that you are MORE likely to need a large crew when surveying, I'd expect the cargo would go.

Now Sensors/9 IMO is overkill, that gives 2 parsecs passive range and system-wide active range. That's a LOT of data.

Easing back to a Computer/6 and Sensors/6 only requires the sacrifice of 2 tons, and cargo would be the logical thing to scrap (or the air/raft garage - what do serving IISS need with that?).

 

[LordVince]

I have been bothered by this for many a long year.

Not too long ago, a buddy of mine & I sat down with Falkayn's EXCELLENT Starship Design spreadsheet (thank you, Falkayn), and we input all the data for the Type-S AS GIVEN, i.e., in the condition that it is recieved as a Mustering Out benefit. Guess what? It all came out to 100 dtonnes.

It always has. But, as CarlP points out, everywhere they describe the Mustering Out version of a Type-S, they keep saying that stuff was taken OUT, and lesser equipment put in (or nothing was put back, in the case of stripping out the weapons.

SO. Working with that as a base, we started pondering the Question "What does a SERVING Scout Ship have?". After a couple hours of skull work, research, and one arm-wrestle-for-dominance, we finished up what we felt would be a proper In-Service Type-S scoutship.

We were WAY over 100 dtonnes.....

But you must remember that, among our sources of information were a couple versions of the DECKPLANS for a Type-S. And, according to these deckplans, the CARGO HOLD is 20 tons. A SPECIFIVALLY DESIGNED ROOM is set aside for cargo. NOT "extra space where we can just put cargo", but a specifically designed, independent chamber. So we left that alone. It has 4 staterooms -- 16 tonnes -- can't change that.
We pulled out the LISTED avionics & computers, and started dropping in bigger & better units.

Falkayn, I don't think you can put Model 6 stuff in the Type-S. I don't remember at what level it was, but, according to your spreadsheet, we eventually hit a point where we were getting "Tech Level too low" messsages. I THINK it was past Model 4 (unfortunately, we were working on my buddy's machine, and I don't have a copy handy).

We installed a pulse laser & sandcaster in the turret.

No mention is made of pulling out either the powerplant or any engine parts, so we left those alone -- that also restricted the level of equipment we could install.

Basically, we came to the conclusion that the Type-S, as presented in the book, was built to be EXACTLY the way it WAS. It could NEVER have been any better.

So, we took our more-than-100-tonne scout, and started playing with different equipment.

First, in order to support all the In-Service stuff, the powerplant had to be made bigger; this also increased needed fuel tonnage. Maneuver drives & Jump drives were left as-is.

Like I said, we managed to get the Sensors & Avionics & Computers up to, like Model 4.

We changed the Quarters from 4 Staterooms (16 tonnes) to 4 Cabins (8 tonnes).

This is a SCOUT ship: while we left the Jump fuel tonnage as-is (enough for 1 J2), we DOUBLED the powerplant fuel, to give the vessel an 8-week duration.

The specifically designated Cargo Hold dropped from 20 tonnes to 12 tonnes.

SUCCESS! We finally had what we considered to be a well-thought-out, IN-SERVICE Type-S Scoutship at 100 dtonnes.

THEN we stripped it down!

We dropped the Computer to a Model 1/bis (why leave the J2 drives, if the computer can't handle a Jump-2?), the avionics & sensors we dropped to the specified levels.

We left the larger powerplant in place, as well as the expanded fueltanks.

We stripped the weapons, but left the double turret.

What we ended up with was an over-powered, ex-military vessel (comfort-wise), with stripped down electronics, a DESIGNATED 12 tonne cargo hold....and LOTS of empty spaces behind the bulkheads. Something like 7-8 dtonnes worth of empty spaces.

Sure, in this version it COULD haul 20 tonnes of cargo...if half of it were in the form of loose boxes that a man could carry...

 

[mike wightman]

And hidden behind bulkheads you say...

 

[mike wightman]

The scout/courier cargo/equipment dilemma disappears if you build it using any Traveller rules except for LBB2.
In T20, for example, it has a 20t cargo hold.
As to the computer model before being stripped down, you are limited, by EP's, to no more than a model4. This sacrifices agility and prevents the scout mounting any laser weaponry.
Now if the power plant has been replaced with a lower TL model it could be argued that in service scouts have a TL13, or even TL15, power plant. That would give you enough EP's to fit a better computer, carry laser weapons, and keep agility 2.

 

[Whipsnade]

Gentlemen,

Back in the days when I still played Traveller; instead of merely playing with Traveller, and dinosaurs still roamed the Earth, my players had the same questions regarding the venerable scout/courier that you have. How did I answer them?

First, I lied. Then, I did some thinking.

My solution involved the cargo bay and attic. (FWIW, I like Lord Vince's solution very much. Very nice work, m'lud) I told my players that the 'cargo bay' was called a cargo bay and the 'attic' was called the attic on a detached duty S/C only. On active duty S/C, the 'cargo bay' was the mission equipment compartment and the 'attic' was the auxiliary mission equipment compartment.

I figured the 'cargo bay' and the 'attic' were the key. They provided the room to customize a S/C for specific missions. An S/C in service, as oppose to one on detached duty, was fitted out for whatever chore she happened to be assigned. As jobs changed, so did her fittings. (Please note; I was not making the S/C 'modular' in any sense, although TNE's ideas about plugging in various 'cans' is a nifty one.) What I figured was that a S/C got various refits as each mission required. Depending on the mission and the equipment it required, these refits could be a couple hours work or a couple weeks labor.

The S/C is supposed to this IISS workhorse. She chases down x-boats for the tenders, delivers messages off the x-boat routes, does survey work, schlepps around personnel, and a hundred other different things. There's just no way one ship could do all that without modifications. The IISS plugs and chugs whatever equipment is needed for a particular mission into the cargo bay/attic and off she goes. When a new job is assigned, she gets a new set of goodies.

That was my answer. Pretty vague, I know. No tonnage listings for various items, no power requirements, no items X, Y, Z for mission X, nothing like that. Just the idea that the S/C got dressed up for each job, that's all. Keeping it vague kept my hands free as the GM.


Sincerely,
Larsen

P.S. I do remember one example of a 'fit out'. My players took 15 members of an IISS geo survey party to Burtson for a regular duty rotation. Other than the party's chief who shared a stateroom, the rest rode 'cold' in a low berth unit installed with an intregal power supply in the mission equipment compartment. Most of their gear got crammed into the attic!

 

[BetterThanLife]

Before T20 the COmputer type was not tied to the quality of the sensors. YOu could have the best sensors in the universe and a model 1 computer. In T20 you have a different problem. The quality of your sensors is tied directly to your computer model number. The other problem I saw with the Scout is there was never a purification plant in it. Now a Scoutship was, in CT at least, designed to run on unrefined fuel. (IT more than made up for the unrefined fuel penality on the misjump table.) After CT you lost that advantage but never had a purification plant. Any ship designed as a workhorse for a Scout Service that does include exploration has to be capable of wilderness refueling.

Before T20 the Attic was for Lab equipment, mission gear etc. (Says so in Adventure 0) The Commo Bay has also been stripped out. (Extensive additional memory banks for messages.)

For T20 the best way to describe a Serving Scout, in terms of space and capability, is to replace the TL9 powerplant with a Tech 13 Powerplant and replace the Model 1bis computer with a Model 4. YOu still have 2 EP for agility or weapons It only changes the displacement by 3 tons. (Which can come out of the 20 Tons of cargo.) THe problem with this is two fold. First the T20 Scout deckplans, neither of the very nice sets, don't allow for a bigger computer and have all the cargo in one nice big bay. The Classic Sulieman just stick it in the Commo Bay, But the Classic Scout only has 3 tons of Cargo and all that space isn't really accounted for. The Intrepid (Snapshot) , is actually designed according to the book 2 stats and doesn't have a bunch of free space on the deckplan, so the same explaination doesn't work for that one either. The Ninz (FASA) was designed using High Guard and has Armor and 6 tons of cargo. You could do the same thing but in this case you lose agility to bring on the extra sensors as the Powerplant is already TL 14.

The other problem is why go through all the trouble to strip out a 40+ year old Fusion Plant and install a new one of lower tech before retiring the ship.

In service Scoutships, based on the descriptions of Scout service, would tend to be typically one to two man crews. With the one Crewman being able to handle everything on the ship. It ignores the classic Military Axiom, that two is one and one is none, but the Scouts apparently don't think much of how the military does things.

 

[far-trader]

Evening Carl and all,

I am loath to link my own example for it recalls one promise of a few I still have to finish but it does offer one example for this case, specifically for T20 but adaptable enough I think. The links in the article are sadly no longer valid but if I can find a reasonably finished version of my deckplans I'll seek permission to add the other graphics to the webpage when I do it.

So hoping what's there helps some, check out:

INSIDE - The Type S Scout/Courier