Using Traveller data to plot in Astrosynthesis

[BloatedBlowfish]

[Help] Using Traveller data to plot in Astrosynthesis

Greetings,

As the title suggests, I'm searching for the best method to use existing Traveller Section Data and input it into Astrosynthesis for a personal campaign/project. If I have to I suppose I can do it one-by-one *shudder*

I understand a lot of work may be needed to accomplish even a bit of success, but since I've not been able to find any such Traveller data already available to drop into Astro to make my life easier, I thought I'd ask here.

I do understand that perhaps no data is available on the WWW due to copyright and the like.

Suggestions/ideas are most welcome 8)

 

[JustinInOz]

G'Day,

Are you going to to the mapping in 3d or in 2d?

Just curious.

J.

 

[BloatedBlowfish]

Hiya Justin,

You asked:

Are you going to to the mapping in 3d or in 2d?

The first point was to see if I could come up with a system - or use an existing system that was developed to lay out the stars in a similar 2d pattern to that which already exists on the various Traveller maps.

Once I got a handle on a system/existing system then I/users could adjust the stars into the 3rd dimension.

*****
Over the last 6 hours, I've had a go at understanding how Astrosynthesis plots it's stars/coordinates. It is based on a tried and true method of X,Y,Z - identical to what is found in 3D software packages like 3D Studio Max/Softimage/Maya/4D Cinema.

So instead of mucking about and causing any unnecessary confusion, I decided to use the well known XY coordinate plane from a basic grid network used in Algebra/Calculus.

X = Left to Right
Y= Up and Down
Z= Depth

1) My first decision was to figure out how big to make each sector, so I went with an exact duplicate to one sector on a Traveller map - i.e., 8X10. After a bit of calibration, I wound up settling on 7.5 hexes wide by 10.25 hexes long. In Astrosynthesis, I set these values by going to SECTOR-SECTOR PROPERTIES. Then on the Sector Setup and Grids tabs input the following identical values.

X: 7.5
Y: 10.25
Z: 8

2) I had to figure out a system to map each hex on a sector map that correlated with the 0,0,0 that Astro Used. So, after a bit of experimentation, I settled on a range of numbers that included .5 as the basis. Thus:

X: -3.5 to 3.5
Y: 5.0 to -4.5
Z: -3.5 to 3.5 (Set to 4 for the time being)

NOTE: The Zed number can be altered later on to change the map from 2d to 3d.

With whole numbers this seemed confusing at first, so the reason for the use of a .5 system was so I could map the 1/2 step down that the even columns on the Traveller Map are offset from the Odd columns.

Included below is the grid I used with coordinate system in place:

3) Then, I went through and grabbed each system from the Cronor sector of The Imperial Fringe. I placed them into a spreadsheet, and applied the proper numbers (once I figured out exactly how each direction in Astro worked).

A crop of this sector is included for your perusal:

4) At this point I've got all the systems in the Cronor sector on the grid, but they are currently "pinned" there with markers. Which means I still have to go back through and edit each system and change them from "marker" to whatever is actually there. Stars, planets, population, etc.

The following image shows all the systems in the sector - prior to editing each one:

5) I added in the X-Boat Route for the systems in this sector. They'll continue on once all sectors are done and they are imported into the campaign map. I've included a yellow sphere of influence around Narval and Quar so that they more closely match the Traveller map. Lastly, I've changed the colors of the labels on all the sytems, and added in the Zhodani Consolate Marker in yellow.

I've not found a way to create outlining shades around specific sections (blue, BUT in the grand scheme of things I don't know if its that important.
*****

Cheers,

 

[Starflyer]

I've been building the Gamma Quadrant of the Marches in similar fashion though I'm curious why you chose Z = 4 parsec, I used Z=1 and it gives a flatter subsector. Trying to map Traveller in 3D accurately is pointless as there no canon z values to use.

I am using the GURPS system updater available from NBOS website to help populate systems quickly, although still individually and then fine tuning to get the correct main world derails.

 

[BloatedBlowfish]

Hiya Star,

You asked:

I'm curious why you chose Z = 4 parsec, I used Z=1 and it gives a flatter subsector.

After a bit of work I came to the same conclusion. I'll be going through and setting the Zed to 1 but retaining a depth in the Sector of 8. because as you state:

Trying to map Traveller in 3D accurately is pointless as there no canon z values to use.

I've certainly considered that coming up with random Zed values for each system may be pointless, but I believe part of the reason that Astrosynthesis could/should be used is to take advantage of the 3d capability.

Certainly, redrawing all the systems, and then going through and editing each in Astro is sorta cool, but if its not a usable framework that entices the person to feel like its a living breathing part of space then otherwise, whats the point?

To that end, I'm currently looking at a couple of options that would give a fare amount of depth to the sector in general, without making the distance between stars any different relatively speaking.

One option is to take each column and offset them .5 to 1.5 in the Zed to give depth, which in turn would make the x-boat routes have a bit more flavor to them.

This I'm still contemplating.

*****

On to the next bit of work. I've been trying to find a way to fill in some of the details in Astro when I create/edit a system/planet. Some of the numbers needed by the program to flesh out a system I just didn't have access to without serious searches online.

Thankfully, this site:
http://www.transhuman.talktalk.net/iw/Geosync.htm

I snagged the entire site for offline use and it allows me to fill in the exact info I need and voila, instant data to be plugged into Astro.

*****

A couple questions for anyone using Astro:

1) Are you, when told that a system has a gas giant - inputting any details for it, or are you allowing Astro to do the dirty work for that star?

2) In regards to the star itself - are you choosing simple gas Giant, or a specific type - even if the UPP doesn't say?

3) Where do you get the data to fill in the star, if doing it manually?

Many thanks

 

[Starflyer]

I'm using Traveller star data from the latest Spinward Marches list for T5 which lists star types.

 

[JustinInOz]

I have gone through and done the Aramis subsector.

I did it in 3d though. I used a spreadsheet to preserve the jump distances between the immediate and secondary neighbors by minimising the variance between ideal and actual.

If you wanted to do more than a subsector, you probably want to write up a script to do it. There are scripts on the support site for Astrosynthesis. Your best bet would be to hijack one of them and have it do what you wanted to.

1 Generate a list of starsystems
2 for each star system, check the hab/hot/cold zone for suitable planet that corresponds to Traveller mainworld that you want.
3 if not there, clear the zone and regenerate planets until a suitable one was generated
4 delete any plantets that have an orbit crossing the Hill sphere of the Traveller mainworld.
5 Check for gas giants
6 Add or subtract GGs until you have what you want. Delete ones you don't want or Delete some other one and replace with GG.
7 Same for Belts.
8 Move the starsystems to where you want them on the map.

Depending on the size you want to work with, doing it by hand or coding and debugging. One of them will be less work.

 

[BloatedBlowfish]

I have gone through and done the Aramis subsector.

I did it in 3d though. I used a spreadsheet to preserve the jump distances between the immediate and secondary neighbors by minimising the variance between ideal and actual.

If you wanted to do more than a subsector, you probably want to write up a script to do it. There are scripts on the support site for Astrosynthesis. Your best bet would be to hijack one of them and have it do what you wanted to.

1 Generate a list of starsystems
2 for each star system, check the hab/hot/cold zone for suitable planet that corresponds to Traveller mainworld that you want.
3 if not there, clear the zone and regenerate planets until a suitable one was generated
4 delete any plantets that have an orbit crossing the Hill sphere of the Traveller mainworld.
5 Check for gas giants
6 Add or subtract GGs until you have what you want. Delete ones you don't want or Delete some other one and replace with GG.
7 Same for Belts.
8 Move the starsystems to where you want them on the map.

Depending on the size you want to work with, doing it by hand or coding and debugging. One of them will be less work.

Interesting.

Sadly, my programming/understanding-foo of such things as scripting is beyond negative comprehension. I'll have to stick to basic manual input for each sector, then hope I can figure out how to attack independent creation of stars given I don't have access to T5's data. Having said that, I would prefer to stay within CT boundaries.

Cheers,

 

[BloatedBlowfish]

I did it in 3d though. I used a spreadsheet to preserve the jump distances between the immediate and secondary neighbors by minimising the variance between ideal and actual.

Outta College for the semester and revisiting this thread.

By chance would you have that spreadsheet available with explanations of the various entries? I'd love to take a gander at it

Many thanks,

 

[JustinInOz]

Sure. I have the spreadsheets. They are set up as workings for my calculations. I have not set them up to be readily understandable to someone else. I am happy to provide any explanations you want.

What e-mail address do you want me to send them to? The Regina on is 474kb.

I have just posted the file in the spreadsheets section of the forum.

 

[Shonner]

I would use an already published subsector as the mid-level of a 3D subsector. Then I could add levels above and below it to give the subsector "height" which could be 9 levels stacked on top of each other.

This would allow the creation of additional systems in the Traveller universe that could be added to the Regina subsector, so your worlds are closer to the action. Instead of creating subsectors rimward or trailward, etc that are nowhere near the beaten path.

 

[shadowdragon]

Export your data so far from Astro into a CSV file, import it into a spreadsheet.

Sheet 1- this data- fill it out as far as needed manually

Sheet 2- TU data to convert

Sheet 3- fill in the blanks or make formulas to convert or detail your UPP into Astro specific data- you will need to reference both sheets 1 & 2 to add the new coordinates and to convert the TU data to Stars, planets, belts etc.. Astro has help articles to show the CSV format for importing.

Sheet 4 - highlight the now converted data (in its CSV format) from sheet 3, right click and select "copy", then in sheet 4 select "Paste Special" (re: excel - it may be different in your spreadsheet program) and paste the results, not the formulas and whatnot. Copy sheet 4 into its own spreadsheet and import that back into Astro.

redo once you figure out where i screwed up!:rofl:

Seriously I think that should do it- the hard part will be converting the TU data to Astro data but I am confident it can be done semi automatically with formulas- I generally do 10 or so such conversions in a list to begin with until I work the bugs out then just copy and paste for the rest of the list. If I get a chance over the next couple days I will take a crack at it to see how much of a headache it will be. FYI - you don't need to put everything on separate sheets but it helps to debug if you need to. And it keeps it all organized so you don't accidentally import the wrong data.


Enjoy!

Oh- as far as delineating the "hex" outlines, put a 1pc "Sphere of influence" around each star location. It isn't perfect but it will be close, and a good visual marker to boot.

Also- i would go ahead and run each zed number down to zero, and use the grid lines spaced out to sector sized rectangles. It will work as a nice visual representation along with the spheres.

Have a day!