Vampire's and Nukes

[Elliot]

IMO the biggest fear for a world on the rebuild is nuke armed Vampires. OK Meson guns would be pretty scary, but by 1200 most of those types of ships are gone.

But how many nukes are left. If a ship has its nukes from 1130, how many are going to be left by 1200 or, for that matter, 1248?

How easy are nuke missles to make - missle and warhead together? Is this a plot in the making - a Vampire missle factory world where cyms and humans are enslaved to make new nukes for passing fleets.

 

[kafka47]

Nuclear weapons were strictly outlawed in the Imperium until the Black War. Then you can imagine any planet with sufficient uranium of which there are plenty could service as a bomb making platform.

Now given most of the Imperial Navy believes in automation of its factories, mines, etc. You get the idea that 1247 was very hot year in the stand off between the Virus and the resurgent forces of organic life. The only problem with Nukes is the Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) which would pose hazzards for silicon life as well.

 

[Highguard]

IMHO Nuke armed Vampire ships would be rather rare by the time 1248 rolls arround. It would definately be the exception rather than the rule. If a V-Ship is running arround with Nukes, it probably scavanged them or, more likely, has a cult of worshipers/slaves making them for it.

Would be an interesting Hook idea: You must sneek into Ibblefrix space, get on Beeblebox planet and take out the uranium processing plant before the V-Ship Booms-A-Lot can get his slave force to build it a bomb.

If the population is slaves would definately be much easier to do than if they all worship the thing....


Peace out

 

[Elliot]

It reminds me of an WWII film about a commando mission to knock out a German V2 rocket plant. I cant quite think of the title, but certainly a good plot line. Hmmm.....

Scientists - do nuclear warheads last in a stable condition for 100 years. Assuming that most missles where fired by Vampire fleets in the 1130-1140 period, would the warheads last until 1200/1248 in prime condition or would need be had to repair/upgrade them?

 

[kafka47]

Elliot,

Don't limit yourself to Nukes. Remember the Black War had more dangerous weapons in the arsenal than Nuke weapons. Imagine what K'kree Bioweapons division would produce? Why do you think the Dominate is scary and a force not to be reckoned with?

 

[shield]

The question on how long nukes last. Current TL8 nukes need maintainance, but nothing beyond a TL6/8 world.

Cheers
Richard

 

[mike wightman]

If the nukes are based on tritium fusion then the half life of 12.4 years would become a problem.

I remember reading something about the tritium in American nukes has to be monitored and replaced periodically or your MT fusion bomb becomes a kT fission warhead only - or possibly only a paperweight

By the way, was the film Operation: Crossbow???

 

[Elliot]

Yep - Operation Crossbow, thats the one - not the best film if I remember - more Saturday afternoon Channel 4/BBC2 fodder. Would make a good PC plot, however.

Sigg, Richard P - many thanks for the swift info. If nukes have such a short life span without maintenance, then one can envision that most missles are relative damp squibs by 1200 (without a Vampire supply line that is). Which makes Vampires an ever diminishing threat in terms of random black war attack.

Kafka - Yes - bioweapons are a problem - but again the Vamps need a supply line of chemicals and chemists (unless they can cook up anthrax in their fusion plants

that is).

Interesting adventure coming together.

 

[savage]

If the 1248 leads to a plague of new Virus ships, and they can build and maintain fusion power stations there must be the ability to build and maintain WMDs of various types. IMTU, 1212, Virus,
non-computer tech has dropped. They still use nukes and biological weapons...while the higher tech sophonts aim for tactical strikes.

Savage

 

[vegascat]

The hard radiation from the uranium in the warhead is very hard on electronics in the fuzing mechanism. The control computer would also be damaged by the ionizing radiation.
Warhead testing is still ongoing to determin how radiation affects warheads and gudance computers in current use.
After 50 years, most electronics would be damaged enough to effect targeting and detonation. More advanced missiles with more condensed circutry would be even more severly effected. You should expect 90% of missiles to be damaged enought to be unservicable with an increased unservicable rate of 1% per tech level over TL8. REgular maintenance replacing damaged parts would negate most of the damage, and higher tech levels would be able to spot the microscopic damage better.

 

[kafka47]

So is that what drove the stake through the Vampire's Black Heart/Curtain...surely even if the curtain is torn asunder there must be plenty of automated surprises that the Vampires would have thrown at the Vilani as they approached Core...but I guess MJD is not telling...

 

[DED]

Originally posted by vegascat:
The hard radiation from the uranium in the warhead is very hard on electronics in the fuzing mechanism. The control computer would also be damaged by the ionizing radiation.
Warhead testing is still ongoing to determin how radiation affects warheads and gudance computers in current use.
After 50 years, most electronics would be damaged enough to effect targeting and detonation. More advanced missiles with more condensed circutry would be even more severly effected. You should expect 90% of missiles to be damaged enought to be unservicable with an increased unservicable rate of 1% per tech level over TL8. REgular maintenance replacing damaged parts would negate most of the damage, and higher tech levels would be able to spot the microscopic damage better.

Maybe BSD in the missile casing provides some sort of shielding from errant radiation.

 

[DED]

Originally posted by kafka47:
So is that what drove the stake through the Vampire's Black Heart/Curtain...surely even if the curtain is torn asunder there must be plenty of automated surprises that the Vampires would have thrown at the Vilani as they approached Core...but I guess MJD is not telling...

The devil's in the details.

 

[Antony]

Don't forget the Nuclear Damper boxes which can "preserve" nuclear material indefinately. I have yet to see a warship design with this type of storage, but can easily imagine one of those resupply bulk carriers or an old naval base still having missiles in ND storage facilities.

Another plot hook

 

[Elliot]

So to summarise - would it be fair to say that as the 1200s progress nuclear strikes from Vampire's are going to be less and less as their missles a) run out and b) degrade?

 

[Badbru]

Elliot,

I would think so, yes, that would be my assesment, but then that's only my opinion and preference.

IM-TNE-U I roll a d6-1 per barbette equivelent, where two turrets = a barbette for missile avaiability for virus ships travelling the hiway.

Virus ships off the hiway I usually either have no missiles available to Vamps or just roll one d6 for the entire ship. This is assuming the ship in question has missile lauch capability. None of the "TNE" civilian ships in the core rules book or Brilliant lances supplement have missile turrets as they would have been restricted or illegal in the Imperium. In addition HardTimes suggests there was a move away from missiles late in the rebellion as lasers require no ammunition.

One further house rule I implemented due to not wanting my players to nuke land targets with their space missiles was to decree that space missile detonation circuitry prevents detonation in an atmosphere. I have no backup or support for this assertion other than not wanting my players to nuke Star City on Promise

But since it applied equally to all parties they knew their own bases were not going to be nuked either.

If you don't want to go down that road remember there is nuclear damper technology (nods to Antony) Cities will have quite likely set up nuclear damper defence sites if they had access to that technology, especially during the rebellions black war period.

 

[kafka47]

What are we likely to see survive into the New Era of 1248...I have imagined the Dominate as bio/nuclear nightmare only contained by the 4th Imperium. Isn't this one of the most frightening manifestations of the virus when it cross over into biological existance?

 

[savage]

Babru,
So Star City defense detects a missile lock and the system locks on and vaporizes the missile at close range or 200 of them. Then the destroyers in orbit wipe out your player's ship...end story.


Virus nuclear strength has to be impressive but they have have limitations. They're concept is to spread not suicide, as in the beginning. So, I'd assume they use bio terrors but limit their nuclear deployments to what is necessary.

So, the view that virus has a varied number of nuclear weapons works for me. I'd day they'd prefer bio weapons so they can infect existing systems. Where Virus will fail is logistics.
Virus supply chain would probably work on a barter basis of some sort. Of course, they enslave sophonts giving them access to a disposable labor mining source.

Savage

 

[Highguard]

From Badbru:

One further house rule I implemented due to not wanting my players to nuke land targets with their space missiles was to decree that space missile detonation circuitry prevents detonation in an atmosphere. I have no backup or support for this assertion ..

Actually makes a lot of sence as a missile for the purpose of orbital bombardment would be MUCH larger due to having to survive reentry instead of having to just go from point a to point b in space. Even on planets with thin or trace atmostphear the heat caused by friction would be enough to fry most electronics not specifically designed for it. Vacuume worlds tho would be fair game tho imho.

 

[bairdec]

Actually, the missile would not have to be much larger. The warhead just needs to have a thermal shield to protect the components. The reentry vehicles for the Peacekeeper missile have an ablative coating that works just fine. If you want guidance to the target, you would need to coat that portion of the missile, but a decent targeting system could plot the trajectory so that no manuever is needed after reentry.