What's the difference between LBB 1-3 and the Traveller Book?
- Thread starter Thanos
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creativehum
SOC-14 1K
The Traveller Book is definitely Classic Traveller. (Everything published by GDW up through the start of MegaTraveller is Classic Traveller as far as I know.)
Your best, and most amazing, source for comparison between the editions of Classic Traveller are Frank Filz's Traveller: Section by Section Comparison. Check it out.
Your question is a little tricky because there are two editions of LBBS 1-3 (1977 and 1981), each similar in many way, but also with differences.
(Here are two posts about the differences between the 1977 and 1981 editions:
Two Points Where I Prefer the 1977 Edition Over the 1981 Edition
Another Difference Between the 1977 Edition and the 1981 Edition
The Traveller Book is almost identical to the 1981 edition of Books 1-3 in terms of rules. The most notable rules differences between LBBs (1981) and The Traveller Book is that The Traveller Book contains the Special Circumstances DMs for combat (like Cover, Concealment, Darkness and so on.)
My own take is that there are differences between LBBs 1981 and The Traveller Book that go beyond "the rules." They are found in the additional content found in The Traveller Book and in the rewritten text.
The biggest differences then are the fact that LBBs (both editions) have no mention of any specific setting. There are implied setting details, of course, but no mention of any setting official or otherwise. The back cover text of the boxes as well as the text within the books makes plain that the rules are there for the Referee to create any SF-themed setting he wishes. (The rules for creating subsectors are there for making one's own setting, of course.)
On the other hand The Traveller Book culminates with an entire section on playing in the Third Imperium. A subsector maps are provided, details about the Third Imperium are provided, adventures in the Third Imperium, details about MegaCorporations, and so on. The structure of the book suggests that one reads the rules in preparation to play in the Third Imperium. Whether this is good or bad isn't an issue. The point is, it's different.
Moreover, there are slight changes in the text which change the connotation of the sense of play implied by the different editions.
Here are the first three sentences from Book 1:
When I read that passage, the focus I get is on the lack of communication, the distances mattering, and a great expanse of space that may or may not be "civilized," with plenty of room for bold travellers to go have adventures.
Here are the first few sentences from The Traveller Book:
Notice the differences from the Book 1 text. First the idea that star travel is "as common as international travel is today" (which runs counter to the notion of "a large (bordering on the infinite) universe ripe for the adventurer's bold travels" found in Book 1. (At least for me.)
And then a little later we have the phrases "conquered the stars" and that "travel from one stellar system to another is commonplace." When I read these words they run counter to the spirt of a "universe ripe for the adventurer's bold travels" found in Book 1. (If there is confusion about this please compare the differences between the word "bold" and the word "commonplace.")
It is only after these sentences we get references to the limited communication comparable to the 18th century.
These passages by themselves are fine if that's the kind of setting one wants. The trick is that the rules don't support these sentiments. The rules (consistent from Books 1-3 in 1977 through The Traveller Book in 1982) suggest a fairly dangerous life for people who travel between the worlds. There are hijackings, pirates, risky jumps because of limited refined fuel. There is nothing that seems commonplace about space travel at all. Moreover, the Main World generation system, which produces a crazy patchwork of high and low tech worlds and limited starports for refined fuel and starship repair and construction doesn't suggest anything like "conquered the stars." The rules support the more rough and tumble feel of the Book 1 text's introduction where there are great expanses of space between worlds ("bordering on the infinite") that are barely in touch with each other.
A few sentences later in The Traveller Book we find this passage:
There is nothing like this in LBBs 1-3... and I think for good reason. There is are a few rules about "day-to-day actives" (mostly to do what interstellar trade)-- but most rules, the vast majority of them, are about exceptional moments: Encounters with animals, combat situations, combats in space, determining surprise, psionic powers, bribery, putting on vacc suits during an explosive decompression, fabricating "a new main drive bearing as a starship plunges into a flaming sun."
The rules of Traveller are there for exceptional moments. And that assumes play is focused on exceptional situations and requires a setting ripe for such exceptional situations.
But the text of The Traveller Book suggest that the game is about day-to-day activities. And the book delivers on this: One of the adventures included in The Traveller Book is about endlessly wandering around trying to get some paperwork filled out.
I would offer that this point of view (found in The Traveller Book but not in the LBBs) runs directly counter to these sentences found on the last page of Book 3 in the 1981 edition:
Note that the these sentences make it clear that mundane, "day-to-day" activities "do not work in Traveller." Such activities (thrift, dedication, and hard work) are not what the game is about. It is the exceptional and the adventurous that will persevere. In Books 1-3 the game is about bold plans and executing daring schemes.
I offer that the re-worked text of The Traveller Book (everything from the text on the first page of the book setting up the vision of play ("day-to-day") the focus on MegaCorporation and other details of the Third Imperium, to the "Exit Visa" adventure) are a sharp contrast to the text quoted above from Book 3. Traveller as introduced in The Traveller Book is not about exceptional situations (after all, interstellar travel is as "common" as international air travel) but is in fact quite mundane in many ways. (The fact that rule in The Traveller Book often contradict this "day-to-day" point of view is a weirdness -- and I think helped spark lots of debates as people tried to square the setting fluff words they read in The Traveller Book with rules that did not support that fluff.)
In short, the LBBs offer an open-ended framework for making your own setting with rules that construct implied setting details of a rather rough and tumble setting. The Traveller Book keeps the rules of an implied rough and tumble setting but surrounds the rules with text that not only introduces a specific setting but a setting that is much more civilized and tamed than the rules would suggest.
Anyway... that's my long answer to your question.
Your best, and most amazing, source for comparison between the editions of Classic Traveller are Frank Filz's Traveller: Section by Section Comparison. Check it out.
Your question is a little tricky because there are two editions of LBBS 1-3 (1977 and 1981), each similar in many way, but also with differences.
(Here are two posts about the differences between the 1977 and 1981 editions:
Two Points Where I Prefer the 1977 Edition Over the 1981 Edition
Another Difference Between the 1977 Edition and the 1981 Edition
The Traveller Book is almost identical to the 1981 edition of Books 1-3 in terms of rules. The most notable rules differences between LBBs (1981) and The Traveller Book is that The Traveller Book contains the Special Circumstances DMs for combat (like Cover, Concealment, Darkness and so on.)
My own take is that there are differences between LBBs 1981 and The Traveller Book that go beyond "the rules." They are found in the additional content found in The Traveller Book and in the rewritten text.
The biggest differences then are the fact that LBBs (both editions) have no mention of any specific setting. There are implied setting details, of course, but no mention of any setting official or otherwise. The back cover text of the boxes as well as the text within the books makes plain that the rules are there for the Referee to create any SF-themed setting he wishes. (The rules for creating subsectors are there for making one's own setting, of course.)
On the other hand The Traveller Book culminates with an entire section on playing in the Third Imperium. A subsector maps are provided, details about the Third Imperium are provided, adventures in the Third Imperium, details about MegaCorporations, and so on. The structure of the book suggests that one reads the rules in preparation to play in the Third Imperium. Whether this is good or bad isn't an issue. The point is, it's different.
Moreover, there are slight changes in the text which change the connotation of the sense of play implied by the different editions.
Here are the first three sentences from Book 1:
When I read that passage, the focus I get is on the lack of communication, the distances mattering, and a great expanse of space that may or may not be "civilized," with plenty of room for bold travellers to go have adventures.
Here are the first few sentences from The Traveller Book:
Notice the differences from the Book 1 text. First the idea that star travel is "as common as international travel is today" (which runs counter to the notion of "a large (bordering on the infinite) universe ripe for the adventurer's bold travels" found in Book 1. (At least for me.)
And then a little later we have the phrases "conquered the stars" and that "travel from one stellar system to another is commonplace." When I read these words they run counter to the spirt of a "universe ripe for the adventurer's bold travels" found in Book 1. (If there is confusion about this please compare the differences between the word "bold" and the word "commonplace.")
It is only after these sentences we get references to the limited communication comparable to the 18th century.
These passages by themselves are fine if that's the kind of setting one wants. The trick is that the rules don't support these sentiments. The rules (consistent from Books 1-3 in 1977 through The Traveller Book in 1982) suggest a fairly dangerous life for people who travel between the worlds. There are hijackings, pirates, risky jumps because of limited refined fuel. There is nothing that seems commonplace about space travel at all. Moreover, the Main World generation system, which produces a crazy patchwork of high and low tech worlds and limited starports for refined fuel and starship repair and construction doesn't suggest anything like "conquered the stars." The rules support the more rough and tumble feel of the Book 1 text's introduction where there are great expanses of space between worlds ("bordering on the infinite") that are barely in touch with each other.
A few sentences later in The Traveller Book we find this passage:
There is nothing like this in LBBs 1-3... and I think for good reason. There is are a few rules about "day-to-day actives" (mostly to do what interstellar trade)-- but most rules, the vast majority of them, are about exceptional moments: Encounters with animals, combat situations, combats in space, determining surprise, psionic powers, bribery, putting on vacc suits during an explosive decompression, fabricating "a new main drive bearing as a starship plunges into a flaming sun."
The rules of Traveller are there for exceptional moments. And that assumes play is focused on exceptional situations and requires a setting ripe for such exceptional situations.
But the text of The Traveller Book suggest that the game is about day-to-day activities. And the book delivers on this: One of the adventures included in The Traveller Book is about endlessly wandering around trying to get some paperwork filled out.
I would offer that this point of view (found in The Traveller Book but not in the LBBs) runs directly counter to these sentences found on the last page of Book 3 in the 1981 edition:
Note that the these sentences make it clear that mundane, "day-to-day" activities "do not work in Traveller." Such activities (thrift, dedication, and hard work) are not what the game is about. It is the exceptional and the adventurous that will persevere. In Books 1-3 the game is about bold plans and executing daring schemes.
I offer that the re-worked text of The Traveller Book (everything from the text on the first page of the book setting up the vision of play ("day-to-day") the focus on MegaCorporation and other details of the Third Imperium, to the "Exit Visa" adventure) are a sharp contrast to the text quoted above from Book 3. Traveller as introduced in The Traveller Book is not about exceptional situations (after all, interstellar travel is as "common" as international air travel) but is in fact quite mundane in many ways. (The fact that rule in The Traveller Book often contradict this "day-to-day" point of view is a weirdness -- and I think helped spark lots of debates as people tried to square the setting fluff words they read in The Traveller Book with rules that did not support that fluff.)
In short, the LBBs offer an open-ended framework for making your own setting with rules that construct implied setting details of a rather rough and tumble setting. The Traveller Book keeps the rules of an implied rough and tumble setting but surrounds the rules with text that not only introduces a specific setting but a setting that is much more civilized and tamed than the rules would suggest.
Anyway... that's my long answer to your question.
Last edited:
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
I'm sure others will have a more complete comparison. The two rule sets are pretty much the same, except TTB has some extras, here and there.
I believe the concealment and cover rules are in TTB and not in LBB 1, for example.
I use TTB as my go-to book for CT rule. I don't think I've ever used LBB 1 as my main source of rules (I used Starter Traveller before TTB).
I believe the concealment and cover rules are in TTB and not in LBB 1, for example.
I use TTB as my go-to book for CT rule. I don't think I've ever used LBB 1 as my main source of rules (I used Starter Traveller before TTB).
That was a very good answer. Very informative.
creativehum
SOC-14 1K
Thanks! I tend to go on! But for the last couple of years I've dug in pretty deep on this stuff.
Essentially...
Pre 1981 Bks 1-3 are CT 1E.
Post 1981 books 1-3 are CT 2E
TTB is CT2.1E
Starter is CT2.2E
The consolidated errata covers most of the details.
FFilz' comparison notes the differences fairly well.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
Yep, I thought so. The Cover and Concealment rules are left out of LBB 1. So are the Zero G rules.
The Cover and Concealment rules can be extremely important in this game since gun combat is so deadly. In my games, players got used to moving from cover to cover in a combat round, as soldiers do in real life.
When they move and are out in the open, they use the Evasion rule. And, they try to fire from covered position.
This sure helps out when automatic weapons are involved.
It makes a BIG difference in combat. Partial Cover provides a whopping -4 DM to anyone attacking the character using Partial Cover.
@Thanos
You can pick up the Traveller Book pretty reasonably.
It is $9.99 for a pdf and $20.00 for a hardback AT RPG NOW.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
Does LBB1 have the Typical Actions Chart?
I found this extremely useful in translating what a player wants his character to do--those actions into game terms.
Classic Traveller combat rounds are 15 seconds long with abstracted action. In each round, a character can move and attack. Or, better said, he can take a Typical Action and attack.
I discuss the Typical Actions chart in THIS THREAD.
I found this extremely useful in translating what a player wants his character to do--those actions into game terms.
Classic Traveller combat rounds are 15 seconds long with abstracted action. In each round, a character can move and attack. Or, better said, he can take a Typical Action and attack.
I discuss the Typical Actions chart in THIS THREAD.
creativehum
SOC-14 1K
Follollwing up on S4's point:
I should have added that the presentation of charts and tables in TTB absolutely rocks.
As S4 notes several of the charts are not presented in LBBs 1-3. Moreover, as S4's example suggest, several of the are information scattered and/or implied in the text but presented in clear table formatting.
I print out the table and charts pages from TTB for my reference sheets. They are excellent.
I should have added that the presentation of charts and tables in TTB absolutely rocks.
As S4 notes several of the charts are not presented in LBBs 1-3. Moreover, as S4's example suggest, several of the are information scattered and/or implied in the text but presented in clear table formatting.
I print out the table and charts pages from TTB for my reference sheets. They are excellent.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
They are so good that they did just that for the Starter Edition - all of the charts and tables pages in TTB were combined to make the Charts and Tables Book for that version.
creativehum
SOC-14 1K
True!
But the Stsrter Editon scan that came on my CT CD-ROM isn't as good as The Traveller Book scan. So it's TTB pages for me! (I pulled the pages from the TTB PDF and made a new doc out of them)
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
The Traveller Book also adds some skills to the character development tables, and has cascade skills that the LBB do not have. The cascade skills are as follows from page 25.
No Airship skill is included, but you can get some ideas from JTAS Number 2, the Victoria/Lanth information.
No Airship skill is included, but you can get some ideas from JTAS Number 2, the Victoria/Lanth information.
One thing I would note about vehicle skills is the movement from vehicles that are normally carried aboard star ships in 1977 to more and more detail about various types of vehicles that will be found on worlds. While in one sense that's nice, in another sense, I wonder if it distracts players and starts to change the expectation of what a skill means.
And thanks for the references to my comparison document. Every time one of these "what has changed between 1977 and The Traveller Book with 1981 along the way" threads comes up, I usually find something else to add to or highlight in comparison document. This time I also have started adding quotes from folks at the end.
Frank
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