Why are Radioactives valuable?

[Murphy]

Hello everyone.

I've long been puzzled by this question - if the Imperium long since uses hydrogen-fueled fusion power, and its nuclear weaponry is actually thermonuclear, then what use can uranium see that it's worth 1MCr per displacement ton (per Mongoose rules)?

Yes, it probably does see use in fission power plants on mid-tech worlds, and maybe in fission-fusion thermonuclear bombs like the ones built on modern Earth. It still hardly justifies such extreme value for fission-able materials.

Anyone know what am I missing here?

 

[aramis]

The single most efficient way to generate fusion known at present is a fission blast.

Further, given the fuel rates, fission is highly useful for long duration system patrols. Especially in MGT. Even at higher TL's.

Plus, it's hard to safely transport, not easy to extract, requires careful purification, and careful packaging, and is moderately rare. Each of which results in increased costs.

Spoiler:

Truth be told, MGT pretty much used CT and my numbers for cargos. The CT Cr prices are primarily the spot prices for early 1977 for those items in 1977 US dollars... and $1,000,000.00 was about right for it at that time. My numbers were gap filling to the same standard as best I was able.

 

[Enoki]

I would say simply because if what we know of how they are made is true throughout the universe they are comparatively rare. Since anything heavier than Fe 56 requires a net energy addition to cause fusion most of those elements only exist in very large, old stars or as a result of a nova.

That means there will never be alot of the heavier elements around. Making things worse, the radioactives decay away at various rates. Some of those like Technicium (sp) don't even naturally occur on Earth due to their relatively short life.

Since these have lots of uses besides just fuel they are going to be sought after and their limited supply will drive the price up.

 

[Whipsnade]

Anyone know what am I missing here?

First, radioactives doesn't mean uranium alone. I don't know what the MgT table actually states (although I can guess ) but the trade tables in other versions of the game mention "radioactives" rather than a specific element or isotope.

Second, the various uses of radioactives in industry are too numerous to list here and those uses can only be expected to grow as technology advances. There is much more to radioactives than BOMBS or REACTORS.

Third, the others have already mentioned the scarcity issue, plus, the refining, storage, transport, and other issues, which will keep prices high.

 

[Murphy]

Thanks

Thanks, the idea of them being useful for something besides fuel does help.

Plus, it's hard to safely transport, not easy to extract, requires careful purification, and careful packaging, and is moderately rare. Each of which results in increased costs.

Makes sense as long as they do have actual use with no cheaper alternatives. Otherwise, expensive does not equal valuable - see how precious metals in MgT are 20x cheaper than radioactives

It'd be good to discuss how can radioactives be used beyond just bombs and reactors, but that probably belongs to another subforum...

 

[Enoki]

Most.... most are relatively easy to transport in terms of requirements other than legal ones. Alpha and beta emmitters only require a stout container that is relatively or nearly unbreakable and unspillable unless there is a chance of the material actually undergoing fission.

Gamma emmitters require the container have some degree of shielding based on decay rates of the material (ie the rate of emmissions).

Otherwise, it is the chemical properties of the element. Some are very poisonous like Plutonium or Poloinum (sp) etc.

Otherwise, they only require that the handlers have dosimetry (some device to measure exposure) on while handling them.

For example, depleted uranium used in many military penetrators today is radioactive. It is primarily an alpha emmitter. It poses only a very small risk to users and requires few special precautions.

 

[far-trader]

It'd be good to discuss how can radioactives be used beyond just bombs and reactors, but that probably belongs to another subforum...

Not necessarily, though it has enough material to be it's own topic for sure.

I'll kick it off here though, and split or move it if needed, with a few quick examples off the top of my head.

Medical Imaging - X-rays and Tracer injections

Sterilization - Food (bacterial kill for long shelf life) and Operating Instruments (that don't do well under heat sterilization)

Medical Treatments - Cancer treatments

Industrial Imaging - X-rays of materials for stress fracture detection

...and one you probably have in your own home.

Smoke Detectors

 

[aramis]

Most.... most are relatively easy to transport in terms of requirements other than legal ones. Alpha and beta emmitters only require a stout container that is relatively or nearly unbreakable and unspillable unless there is a chance of the material actually undergoing fission.

Gamma emmitters require the container have some degree of shielding based on decay rates of the material (ie the rate of emmissions).

Otherwise, it is the chemical properties of the element. Some are very poisonous like Plutonium or Poloinum (sp) etc.

Otherwise, they only require that the handlers have dosimetry (some device to measure exposure) on while handling them.

For example, depleted uranium used in many military penetrators today is radioactive. It is primarily an alpha emmitter. It poses only a very small risk to users and requires few special precautions.

You have to keep the individual portions below critical mass, as well. THAT's the big packaging issue, especially for refined radioactives. Because, if you don't, a spill or hit can result in a dirty fizzle† or worse.

†Dirty Fizzle: Special Munitions slang expression for "sub-critical fission reaction event"

 

[Whipsnade]

It'd be good to discuss how can radioactives be used beyond just bombs and reactors, but that probably belongs to another subforum...

You're right, but here are two more uses for you to mull over:

Nitrogen Fixing - If you're growing crops, you're going to need fertilizers but not every world you can grow crops on will have easily accessible nitrates with which to make those fertilizers. You'll need to "fix" nitrogen from the atmosphere into ammonia which is then oxidized into nitrates. Early Haber-like processes used a catalyst which included uranium, later processes replaced uranium with iron, and the process most used currently involves a radioisotope of ruthenium.

Look at the OTU and look at all the places where you want to grow crops but don't have an existing biosphere. Or even an atmosphere. You can get nitrogen from planetoids, comets, KBOs, and gas giants. Once you have nitrogen and the Haber Process, you'll have fertilizer for your crops.

RTG - Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator - Yeah, I know these devices produce electricity and I know I told you to think about stuff other than reactors, but RTGs aren't reactors. They produce electricity directly from heat via thermocouples and that heat produced from the decay of radioactive materials. There aren't any moving parts, they're quite literally a "nuclear battery".

Where solar panels won't cut it and where an untended, needs no refueling power source is required for a long period of time you'll find RTGs. The USSR used them to power lighthouses in the Arctic, they're at the bottom of Earth's oceans, they're in Earth orbit, the Moon is littered with them, various Mars landers have them aboard, they went to Jupiter and Saturn aboard probes, they're even leaving the Solar system aboard other probes, and every blessed one of them uses radioactives.

Think of the OTU and think of all the places where you can't have or don't want solar panels or a fusion plant. Think of all the uses for RTGs, even aboard ships.

Beginning to see why radioactives are in demand?

 

[Murphy]

Ah yes, RTGs.

Right, RTGs use low-halflife, highly emitting isotopes which cannot themselves be found in ores (any natural occurrence would quickly decay), but instead are a by-product of fission. Suddenly the occasional use of fission power reactors is justified because they yield a valuable by-product.

Also, now that I think of it, there CAN be a lot of places where fusion power just won't cut it. After all, liquid hydrogen can, too, be a pain to contain and store for prolonged periods of time.

 

[Whipsnade]

Right, RTGs use low-halflife, highly emitting isotopes which cannot themselves be found in ores (any natural occurrence would quickly decay), but instead are a by-product of fission.

Don't forget, thanks to nuclear damper technology and it's ability to fiddle with the strong nuclear force, the OTU can "manufacture" isotopes from radioactive materials almost at will.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

There may also be expensive legal hoops to jump through first...

 

[Enoki]

You have to keep the individual portions below critical mass, as well. THAT's the big packaging issue, especially for refined radioactives. Because, if you don't, a spill or hit can result in a dirty fizzle† or worse.

†Dirty Fizzle: Special Munitions slang expression for "sub-critical fission reaction event"

That's only true if it will fission to begin with. Let's say you have a load of Cobalt 60. Cobalt won't fission. So, your only worries are the tiny amount of heat generated by decay and protecting the handling crew from exposure.

 

[LeperColony]

Wouldn't there be an additional market for radioactives on lower TL worlds (like TL 8-9) where they would have to use them in industries (like weaponry or energy) that maybe higher TL no longer required?

 

[aramis]

That's only true if it will fission to begin with. Let's say you have a load of Cobalt 60. Cobalt won't fission. So, your only worries are the tiny amount of heat generated by decay and protecting the handling crew from exposure.

The OP was asking about Uranium...

 

[Enoki]

I took it to have expanded to radioactives in general...

Yes, with uranium ore or metal you would have to prevent fission. Of course you could ship it as UF6 gas instead.....

 

[Murphy]

Wouldn't there be an additional market for radioactives on lower TL worlds (like TL 8-9) where they would have to use them in industries (like weaponry or energy) that maybe higher TL no longer required?

Member worlds of the Imperium don't have the right to keep and use nuclear weaponry. Could use fission power plants, perhaps, but I'm certain the Imperial officials would keep a close eye on that.

 

[77topaz]

Is there data in any of the rules about the prices of hydrogen isotopes (deuterium and tritium, used for nuclear fusion) or radioactive elements other than uranium (plutonium, protactinium, and "synthetic" elements like einsteinium, lawrencium, californicium, and the ones with "number names" (e.g. ununoctium))?

 

[Thanos]

Wait. What? Are you telling me in a universe that has several star spanning civilizations, has mastered faster than light travel, has artificial and anti gravity, massive ship mounted energy weapons, that radioactives are still hard to mine, refine and transport? Ha. Ha, ha. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha! No. Just simply no. Rare? Sure, I’ll buy that. The rest? Please.

 

[Enoki]

Discounting just uranium and other fissionables, there is also the reference in the MT Imperial Encyclopedia to the existance of superheavy elements in 'island(s) of stability' well above uranium. They are stated to be rare and "immensely valuable."