World, System, Sector : Going a different way

[DanDare]

I have been playing Traveller since its inception. I have my handy first edition books here, with supplements up to 6: Scouts.

I always liked the intent of the world building, sector generating stuff but have never really liked the results much. It produces too much of the "world in isolation" stuff. The Scouts supplement allowed more of a solar system to be created but it still didn't address the proper effects of interstellar geo-politics, colonisation patterns or elements for adventure, other than the link with running a trading vessel.

I'm involved in the Mongoose 2E play test and its great, but I am disappointed at basically the same ol' planet and sector generator rules. Over the years I have been working on something that requires less up front work and offers more role play hooks for all sorts of different adventures. I am embarking this year on a major play test of it with friends and will publish the mechanisms as they solidify.

I am interested in knowing if anyone else has wandered down the path of generating worlds and sectors differently?

Also I will be using my 10x10x10 parsec sub sector sheet for the play tests. As I mention on the file page it doesn't work too well when connecting to sub sectors above or bellow the current one so for the time being I am going to stick to a galactic plane only 10 parsecs deep in the z axis, until I can think of a better way to run full 3D. That is of course a problem for a paper map. If you were using a computer 3D model then go for it, but I want to solve for paper.

 

[whulorigan]

Also I will be using my 10x10x10 parsec sub sector sheet for the play tests. As I mention on the file page it doesn't work too well when connecting to sub sectors above or bellow the current one so for the time being I am going to stick to a galactic plane only 10 parsecs deep in the z axis, until I can think of a better way to run full 3D. That is of course a problem for a paper map. If you were using a computer 3D model then go for it, but I want to solve for paper.

I remember seeing a 3D hexmap similar to this in the Microgame "Holy War" by Metagaming back in the 70's/80's.

Another way you could do 3D Mapping is simply to use a standard hexmap, but note in any hex with a star/world a "+/-" value for parsecs above/below the plane of the page. So if you define the plane of the page as +/- 0pc, you could have a range (for example) from -5 to +5 (giving a z-depth of 11pc deep, total) for any body. Sectors above/below the plane can then be defined the same way. Distances between any two hex locations can be generated using the Pythagorean Theorem D = sqrt[x² + y² + z²].

Of course, in some cases you may need to place two or three stars/worlds in a single hex, and note the +/- value next to each body for those that lie directly above/below.

 

[kilemall]

I remember seeing a 3D hexmap similar to this in the Microgame "Holy War" by Metagaming back in the 70's/80's.

Another way you could do 3D Mapping is simply to use a standard hexmap, but note in any hex with a star/world a "+/-" value for parsecs above/below the plane of the page. So if you define the plane of the page as +/- 0pc, you could have a range (for example) from -5 to +5 (giving a z-depth of 11pc deep, total) for any body. Sectors above/below the plane can then be defined the same way. Distances between any two hex locations can be generated using the Pythagorean Theorem D = sqrt[x² + y² + z²].

Of course, in some cases you may need to place two or three stars/worlds in a single hex, and note the +/- value next to each body for those that lie directly above/below.

The StarForce map was hex and positive/negative plane.

Universe the RPG had a grid map on the same principle.

 

[kilemall]

As for planet generation, after an extensive search my go-to ended up being RTT Worldgen, it has inputs for values based on how many centuries the area has been 'settled', not exactly a shake and bake X expansion at Y rate but nicely factored into planet stat rolls and terraforming.

http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/RTT_Worldgen

 

[mike wightman]

My usual method when generating a subsector for a 'pocket empire' with a history is to generate the physical stats first.

I then roll the social stats for the number of worlds in the subsector and then allocate the social stats to the world that makes most sense to have that population.

Next is to roll the types of starports for the number of worlds in the subsector and assign those pots to the worlds that make most sense to have them, penultimate step is to generate TL.

The final step is to generate the trade routes.

 

[flykiller]

I am interested in knowing if anyone else has wandered down the path of generating worlds and sectors differently?

instead of generating a space whole you could try growing it. make it a program. start with physical stats (habitability, biosphere, mineral resources, random "draws", random "hazards"). then assign a starting colonization world with minimal population. the population grows and advances in tech level, generates "explorations" that have a chance (or not) to reach nearby worlds and find/identify the resources/draws without encountering hazards. a located planet that is acceptable draws new colonists. repeat each system. systems which exceed colony worlds in jump technology may bypass the colonies in their exploration efforts. introduce random variations in cultures and political leadership and law levels, which may advance or retard further exploration efforts, population increases, and/or tech advancement.

 

[DanDare]

Thanks for the input so far. The way I look at it you want to separate out physical system from social. I agree also that for the social you want a history and an duration of colonisation that has an effect.

I prefer to generate a "character" for a whole star system and have a simple procedural generator to fill in details only as needed. Part of that comes from looking at the interstellar nations and their culture and structure. Again that can be a broad brush, proc gen seed and add detail only as needed.

Lastly the geo/politics should be dynamic, maybe playing out in turns of at least 1 year,

 

[robject]

My usual method when generating a subsector for a 'pocket empire' with a history is to generate the physical stats first.

I then roll the social stats for the number of worlds in the subsector and then allocate the social stats to the world that makes most sense to have that population.

Next is to roll the types of starports for the number of worlds in the subsector and assign those pots to the worlds that make most sense to have them, penultimate step is to generate TL.

The final step is to generate the trade routes.

I like that. It gives directed generation for long-settled hunks of space.

 

[robject]

I prefer to generate a "character" for a whole star system and have a simple procedural generator to fill in details only as needed.

I like the way you describe your vision and process. "Character" does sound like a useful, quick, and engaging way to develop a system. Do you go so far as to create an iterative "career"-like process which assigns "skills" (i.e. generalized social and structural attributes) to the system? A very nice shorthand indeed.

For example, a system could start out quite "basic" (one star, a nondescript insystem and outsystem, and no? population), and have 2D "terms", during which the designer chooses one of two paths (safe vs risky), then a few attributes are rolled which modify the system's profile. At the end of the process, you have the skeleton of a system with enough clues to fire the imagination for a later writeup.

Some attributes cancel previous ones. For example, a "Flare" attribute would wipe out a population, resulting in a Dieback world. Or just call it a "Dieback" attribute, leaving the means of destruction open to later interpretation.

 

[flykiller]

"Character" does sound like a useful, quick, and engaging way to develop a system.

hm. how would you characterize our system?

 

[DanDare]

I like the way you describe your vision and process. "Character" does sound like a useful, quick, and engaging way to develop a system. Do you go so far as to create an iterative "career"-like process which assigns "skills" (i.e. generalized social and structural attributes) to the system?....etc

Some innovative ideas you have put up there.

Yes, I work in 10 year chunks to start it off and getting closer to campaign start date slow down to 1 year chunks.

I'm also looking at nations and, within them, factions as forms of character as well. They represent contexts for the social development of the star systems they encompass.

The trick is to make campaign generation fairly light and defer detail closer to the players and their adventures. Also allow the game master a lot of latitude. If the mechanics are too crunchy game masters often seem to get their imaginations de-railed by the procedural aspects.

 

[DanDare]

Universe the RPG had a grid map on the same principle.

I kept the map but ditched the game. I have played a Classic Traveller campaign all over that map. Also the Traveller 2300 map.

My grid was based on the SPI Game, Godsfire, a 3d space nation strategy game.