Zero-G combat

[Julius9999]

Running a game with pirates boarding the players trader. Thinking about using projectile weapons in Zero-G and the effect of damage to a suit. I had made up some rules on critical hits (explosive decompression, suit integrity etc.) Also the effect of force when the player is nor in contact with a surface. All of which produced some good game play but how much it reflected the real world was debated at length......
Is there any section in any rule book dealing with the complexities of Zero-G combat?

 

[ffilz]

Running a game with pirates boarding the players trader. Thinking about using projectile weapons in Zero-G and the effect of damage to a suit. I had made up some rules on critical hits (explosive decompression, suit integrity etc.) Also the effect of force when the player is nor in contact with a surface. All of which produced some good game play but how much it reflected the real world was debated at length......
Is there any section in any rule book dealing with the complexities of Zero-G combat?

Snapshot has some rules.

Beltstrike has some rules that are a later version of the Snapshot rules.

Books 4 and 5 have some rules in the same vein in the Zero-G-Combat skill description.

There are probably other bits of the rules scattered about.

What version of Traveller are you using?

 

[mike wightman]

CT LBB:4 Mercenary:

Zero-g Firing: Projectile throwing weapons fired in a zero-g environment do not lose accuracy with range to the same extent as normally. At medium, long, and very long range, such weapons use the DM for either short or medium range, whichever is more favorable.

Zero-g Combat: The individual has been trained to fight in a zero-g environment.
Virtually all weapons involve some recoil, and in a zero-g environment this recoil can disorient or render helpless individuals not trained to compensate for it. When fighting in a zero-g environment, any individual has a chance of losing control of his movement/position each combat round.
Roll 10+ on two dice to avoid losing control. Apply the following DMs:
Firing a weapon: -4.
Firing a low-recoil (zero-g) weapon: -2.
Using a handhold: +5.
Striking with a blade weapon, pole-arm, fist or similar: -6.
Wearing battle dress: +2 per level of Battle Dress skill.
Wearing vacc suit: +2 per level of vacc suit skill.
Note that laser weapons have no recoil.
For each level of Zero-g Combat expertise: +4.
Dexterity of 9+: +2.
Dexterity of 11 +: +4.
Using a handhold reduces dexterity for the purposes of weapon accuracy by four.
Individuals who lose control may not fire until they have reoriented themselves, and regained control. Roll 10+ each subsequent combat round to regain control, with all DM's above in use except that handholds may not be used nor may weapons be fired.

Edited to include the vacc suit DM found in LBB:5

 

[McPerth]

AHL also has some rules for zero-G.

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

MgT 2e plays it as "every time you make a attack in Zero-g, make a average (+8) Athletics (dexterity) check, or miss your attack and spin helplessly out of control".

recovery is a another average (+8) Athletics (dexterity) check.

weapons with the Zero-G trait do not cause this effect. these include snub weapons, accelerator weapons, and lasers.

Also anyone without skill 0 or greater in Athletics (dexterity) is also has a -1 penalty on every physical skill check they make in zero g.

 

[whartung]

CT LBB:4 Mercenary:

Surprised there's no -DM for auto fire.

I think for suits, rather than having routine decompression effects, it would be better modeled as a "critical hit", but such hits are more likely than normal.

This is simply to perhaps manifest that the Vacc Suit materials have some self sealing capability (even for a 10mm hole). But when they do give way, yea, it's bad.

 

[mike wightman]

The rules for damage to vacc suits are buried in one of the double adventures...

Across the Bright Face:

Vacuum Suits: Vacc suits should be treated as cloth armor. If a person is hit in combat, throw 11+ for a faceplate shatter (and instant death); otherwise, hits are applied normally. In addition, however, the puncture in the vacc suit must be covered immediately. Throw the dexterity of any one adjacent individual to fully cover the hole; allow a DM of twice vacc suit skill. If unsuccessful, throw the wounded individual's dexterity (if still conscious) in the next combat round to cover the puncture; allow a DM of vacc suit expertise. If this procedure is unsuccessful, the suit loses pressure, and the person dies.

The only thing I would take exception to is exposure to vacuum isn't instant death.

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

The rules for damage to vacc suits are buried in one of the double adventures...

Across the Bright Face:


The only thing I would take exception to is exposure to vacuum isn't instant death.

well, it isn't.

Research into the affects of exposure to vacuum generally show that its not a Hollywood instant death, but somewhat slower. generally you get about 15-20 seconds of conscious thought before you "brown out" and start to die of asphyxiation, but assuming the helmet and the suit are separate pressure vessels, or at least a the suit has some sort of seal at the neck, it would be possible to survive with only severe bruising at the site of the leak, assuming a patch was quickly applied.


really, you're going to be much more worried about the bullet wound than the hole in the suit.

 

[Ulsyus]

Zero-g Firing: Projectile throwing weapons fired in a zero-g environment do not lose accuracy with range to the same extent as normally. At medium, long, and very long range, such weapons use the DM for either short or medium range, whichever is more favorable.

That's fine if this relates primarily to penetration, or the only factor to influence successfully hitting the target was the arc of a rounds movement between the barrel and the point of impact, but there's a bit more to it. Given that hitting a target at long ranges is more difficult for most projectile weapons I'm not convinced that not having greater target numbers the further out you go is necessarily a good idea.

 

[kilemall]

That's fine if this relates primarily to penetration, or the only factor to influence successfully hitting the target was the arc of a rounds movement between the barrel and the point of impact, but there's a bit more to it. Given that hitting a target at long ranges is more difficult for most projectile weapons I'm not convinced that not having greater target numbers the further out you go is necessarily a good idea.

In addition to not having air resistance and therefore drop, there is no wind or other effects to cause the bullet to veer.


Maybe -1 DM per range band increase?

 

[aramis]

In addition to not having air resistance and therefore drop, there is no wind or other effects to cause the bullet to veer.

Coriolis effect.
Magnetic anomaly.
kicked up "dust".
Static charge.

Coriolis will require only slight correction - and only at a sniper level ranges issue.

Magnetic anomaly can be potentially quite localized. It will, in general, pull affected projectiles on very slight deflection. (Again, mostly, only snipers need to think about it much. And they can kentucky windage it for the second shot.)

Dust kicked up in the interim isn't likely to make a whole lot of difference, either, BUT... grain sizes are somewhat more variable, and they're more irregular, than atmospheric ground-dust.

Static charge can draw additional mass in the form of the very finest dusts. Not a huge issue, unless there's also dust...

We're talking a couple mm at sniping ranges. Outside the system's granularity.

Note one other thing: Snipers don't have that loud noise to give away their position, so if using a flash-less weapon, it can be full power. The kickup from the projectile's impact will, but unless it's close, won't warn the target, either.

 

[Julius9999]

Another tack I was thinking about is the type of suit worn. The rules from Mr. Wightman I was not aware of but look good but surely high tech planets/corporations/armed forces provide anti-damage protection for suits much like the "survivability onion" of modern AFVs. The same could be true for recoil and combat effects. A combat stabilised Vacc Suit maybe.
Anyway thanks for all the replies.

 

[BwapTED]

Side note/question about hand weapons in microgravity

CT LBB:4 Mercenary:

Would you say battledress or a Vacc suit fitted with sticky feet/mag-boots counts as using a handhold?
A (properly trained) marine in b-dress with a melee weapon has no penalty, then.

 

[McPerth]

Side note/question about hand weapons in microgravity



Would you say battledress or a Vacc suit fitted with sticky feet/mag-boots counts as using a handhold?
A (properly trained) marine in b-dress with a melee weapon has no penalty, then.

I guess hat's why wearing a battledress gives you a DM of +2 per skill level.

In CT:LBB5 High Guard, this is if wearing a vacc suit, not only battledress, so vacc suit has the same effect, as you hint here (or that's what I understand in your post).

Even so, to really have no penalty, the Marine should have vacc suit (or battledress) skill 3 to avoid the mele weapon DM just for it...

 

[mike wightman]

Would you say battledress or a Vacc suit fitted with sticky feet/mag-boots counts as using a handhold?
A (properly trained) marine in b-dress with a melee weapon has no penalty, then.

I agree with McPerth, the DM for battledress and vaccsuit skill (I edited my earlier post to include vacc suit) possibly rolls a mag-boot like effect into the skill.

That said I could see a separate DM for using mag-boots, the drawback would be you couldn't move while braced/anchored for firing/swinging.

 

[McPerth]

About movement (something rarely discussed about, as most zero-G discussions are about combat), I like AHL rules.

On them (very resumed) you can move by following the walls, assumed to be using handholds (BTW, once more and as an aside, almost never depicted in Traveller art about interiors) or propel you to move to another wall at a constant speed until you hit it.

 

[Ulsyus]

Coriolis effect.
Magnetic anomaly.
kicked up "dust".
Static charge.

...
We're talking a couple mm at sniping ranges. Outside the system's granularity.

They're all valid considerations, but would be situational rather than necessarily universal. If the came into play then a ref should be applying penalties to hit, presumably greater at longer ranges

Additionally, the sighting mechanism on the weapon would have a constant modifier, in that a scope will likely offer fewer penalties to a firer than old iron sights.

 

[McPerth]

Comment on magnetic boots

For magnetic boots to be efective, remember the floor (or walls) must be from ferrous materials. IDK if the superdense materials high tech ships are built on are magnetic...

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

For magnetic boots to be efective, remember the floor (or walls) must be from ferrous materials. IDK if the superdense materials high tech ships are built on are magnetic...

they may not be, but might have either a ferrous layer added to the surfaces of ships and the decks to enable the mag boots to work, or the "mag" boots are not actually magnetic anymore but work on some other principle that mirrors the practical effects of mag boots (miniaturised grav system?), and the name is traditional/used as an analogy (ie. "its makes your feet stick like they were magnetic")

 

[Ulsyus]

they may not be, but might have either a ferrous layer added to the surfaces of ships and the decks to enable the mag boots to work, or the "mag" boots are not actually magnetic anymore but work on some other principle that mirrors the practical effects of mag boots (miniaturised grav system?), and the name is traditional/used as an analogy (ie. "its makes your feet stick like they were magnetic")

Good points. If "magnetic boots" are simply be designed to work in with the artificial gravity, then a loss of power in the ship may lead to a loss of attachment to the ship (physical, not emotional). So the idea of having a ferrous or other such matrix in decks, or walls, or whatever part of the ship one wants, would mean that it's just the boots that would require power to work.

Has anyone had fun putting their players through recoil hell in 0-G during a game, or have the PCs been all over the problem and prevented the most embarrassing of the consequences?