lightsenshi
SOC-12
I was wondering the other day, are zero level skills still necessary? It seems to me that the answer is no.
I've been toying with, and may possibly impliment that all the starting homeworld skills are gained at level 1, instead of level 0. I know the idea of the homeworld skills is to give someone a couple extra class skills that fit their homeworld, but I guess I can see a Munchkin sort intentionally picking skills that one has to have a level in anyway, as opposed to some or all that are skills that can be level 0.Originally posted by lightsenshi:
I was wondering the other day, are zero level skills still necessary? It seems to me that the answer is no.
They are only necessary for those skills that cannot be used untrained (e.g. Animal Empathy, Combat Engineering, etc.).Originally posted by lightsenshi:
I was wondering the other day, are zero level skills still necessary? It seems to me that the answer is no.
I've found that homeworld skills can also be very important to a character's later development. Sure they only start out at 1 or 0, but they advance as class skills after that. This not only saves points, but also gives the character another way to develop skills outside their normal class, and occasionally surprise everyone with an odd skill that they learned "back home".Originally posted by DrSkull:
I've been skipping the homeworld skills entirely.
The homeworld feats, on the other hand, are really useful.
I've actually done something different. I already posted how I'm giving Luriani Swim as an extra homeworld skill. What I've also been doing is allowing one, if it's logical and if such is requested, to pick a homeworld skill even if it's not on the list. For instance, if someone from an Ag world wants "P/farming" and/or "K/agriculture" as one of their homeworld skills, they can have it. Some of these I'll even mention and suggest, that is one that I do for instance.Originally posted by DrSkull:
I've been skipping the homeworld skills entirely.
The homeworld feats, on the other hand, are really useful.
Perhaps so, but if I understand right, if I let's say take vessel/grav or vessel/ground/wheeled during prior history, and if I don't have pilot for vessel/grav or vessel/wheeled already, I do believe the feat description states that I get the skill at level 1. To me, it seems logical that one would get pilot or driving at level 1 if one took such feats as homeworld skills. What is the real difference if one takes the feat as a homeworld skill, or if one takes it later in life during prior history, gamewise?Originally posted by GypsyComet:
While Drive can be attempted unskilled, Pilot cannot, so even a Rank-0 is useful.
Note that the Homeworld Feat versions don't promote either of the skills to class skills, but both the homeworld and standard versions of Vessel give a Rank-0. In both cases, you are still avoiding the non-proficiency penalties for that class of vehicle without being particularly skilled.
As such, the progression is:
no feat, related feat, or skill: -4
related vehicle feat: -2
appropriate feat, starting: 0
feat plus ranks: +Ranks
Looks like a good progression to me.
Note that this really applies to vehicles that use Drive. Vehicles that require Pilot are much more strict:
no feat, related feat, or skill: -4 just for a straight line, no chance of anything fancy.
related vehicle feat: -2 but otherwise as above.
appropriate feat, starting: 0 for all activities
feat plus ranks: +Ranks
Okay, I knew what threw me. On the homeworld skill tables on page 33, all the instances of driving are in italics, so thus somehow in my head I had it twisted that if one gains a vehicle feat yet does not have the skill, one must gain it at level 1. Still, to be honest, pilot is listed as "trained only", even though yes, it does indicate that one gains it at level 0 if let's say vessel/grav is taken, but one has no skill in pilot. So...I guess I'm going to have to decide if a vessel feat IMTU gives out a skill of 0 or 1 if taken sans skill. To be honest, I'm still leaning toward a skill of 1, even as a homeworld feat, at least with pilot, possibly drive. Other then maybe a low-pop, low-law level planet, can't see too many planets allowing people to actually fly something with out at least the training to get to level 1. And I can see a high law level planet, regardless of population or actual need, require such for driving.Originally posted by GypsyComet:
While Drive can be attempted unskilled, Pilot cannot, so even a Rank-0 is useful.
Note that the Homeworld Feat versions don't promote either of the skills to class skills, but both the homeworld and standard versions of Vessel give a Rank-0. In both cases, you are still avoiding the non-proficiency penalties for that class of vehicle without being particularly skilled.
True...but the way the T20 rules are written, one gets the skill as soon as one gets the vessel feat, albeit the skill at level zero if not taken previouly. In fact, I do believe that one cannot take piloting or driving as a skill unless one has a feat for each skill. Plus, I still keep on thinking back to higher pop and/or higher law level systems and what they might require, along with piloting, even a Tl 14 air/raft, being probably more difficult then a Tl 5 or 6 ground car, and thus a governing body demanding that a show of at least minimal skill, i.e. an actual skill level of 1.Originally posted by far-trader:
Hmm, I think I'd say the vessel feat represents the actual licensing/testing. The drive/pilot skills represent just that, skill and experience. I've known some drivers who have a license but no real skill, as well as a few who are quit skilled and experienced but never got a license. Anywho just my cr .02
Challenge that belief. The feat indicates that Rank-0 is awarded.Originally posted by Cleon the Mad:
[ I do believe the feat description states that I get the skill at level 1. To me, it seems logical that one would get pilot or driving at level 1 if one took such feats as homeworld skills. What is the real difference if one takes the feat as a homeworld skill, or if one takes it later in life during prior history, gamewise?
Per the T20 rules, not really.Originally posted by lightsenshi:
I was wondering the other day, are zero level skills still necessary? It seems to me that the answer is no.