Some Interesting Military Data

[rancke]

Yep. The Fed reserve bank appeared in 1913. Here is what happened to USD inflation:

So the deflation from 1914 to 1919 was not due to going off the gold standard.


Hans

 

[HG_B]

So the deflation from 1914 to 1919 was not due to going off the gold standard.


Hans

It (that deflation) had nada to do with the gold standard in the US. Starting in 1914 the US exports tripled. That coupled with many other countries de facto going off the gold standard in 1913 caused that yo-yo. Nothing unknown that I'm posting. It is standard material in Econ 100 & 200 classes in college.

 

[Timerover51]

The following account of a very early Letter of Marque, come from the following source. THE MERCHANT NAVY Vol. I, by Archibald Hurd, part of the UK History of the Great War series, prepared by the Historical Section of the Committee for Imperial Defence.

But apart from sheer plundering, though not always distinguishable from it, was the system of legalised privateering arising out of the issue of Letters of Marque. By the licence thus obtained from the Crown, a trader who had been the victim of foreign aggression, or who sought the means of collecting a difficult debt, was given the right of reprisals on the goods of the community or country to which the offender belonged. The first recorded instance of such a grant occurs in the reign of Edward I, though it cannot safely be assumed that none was issued earlier. It was made in favour of the English owner of a ship which, while bringing fruit from Malaga, was piratically seized off the coast of Portugal and carried as a prize into Lisbon. In this case, the licence to seize the goods of the Portuguese to the extent of the loss sustained was limited to five years. The disadvantages of such a rough-and-ready method of adjusting differences need no great emphasis. In the first place, experience showed that licence for reprisals tended to degenerate into licence of a more general kind ; and, secondly, this method of making innocent Peter pay for guilty Paul often acted as a serious deterrent upon trading.

Edward the First was King of England from 1272 to 1307. That puts Letters of Marque quite earlier.

 

[rancke]

Edward the First was King of England from 1272 to 1307. That puts Letters of Marque quite earlier.

It also makes early Letters of Marque somewhat different from later ones. Not surprising that 500 years would make a difference, of course.


Hans

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Woo-hoo!

The following account of a very early Letter of Marque, come from the following source. THE MERCHANT NAVY Vol. I, by Archibald Hurd, part of the UK History of the Great War series, prepared by the Historical Section of the Committee for Imperial Defence.



Edward the First was King of England from 1272 to 1307. That puts Letters of Marque quite earlier.

Hell yeah, Letters of Marque and Reprisal! So, Timerover51, do you perchance have any legible versions? I ask because most of the ones I have found online are just photos and difficult to decipher. Either way, hoping you spead a bit more time and effort on this topic as it is near and dear to my heart. But it is your thread so do what thou will.

 

[HG_B]

Hell yeah, Letters of Marque and Reprisal! So, Timerover51, do you perchance have any legible versions? I ask because most of the ones I have found online are just photos and difficult to decipher. Either way, hoping you spead a bit more time and effort on this topic as it is near and dear to my heart. But it is your thread so do what thou will.

Letter of Marque carried by Captain Millin of the American privateer Prince of Neufchatel during the War of 1812.

James Madison, President of the United States of America,

To all who shall see these presents, Greeting:

BE IT KNOWN, That in pursuance of an act of congress, passed on the 26th day of June one thousand eight hundred and twelve, I have Commissioned, and by these presents do commission, the private armed Brig called the Prince Neufchatel of the burden of three hundred & Nineteen tons, or thereabouts, owned by John Ordronaux & Peter E. Trevall of the City & State of New York and Joseph Beylle of Philadelphia in the State of Pennsylvania Mounting eighteen carriage guns, and navigated by one hundred & twenty nine men, hereby authorizing Nicholas Millin captain, and William Stetson lieutenant of the said Brig and the other officers and crew thereof, to subdue, seize, and take any armed or unarmed British vessel, public or private, which shall be found within the jurisdictional limits of the United States, or elsewhere on the high seas, or within the waters of the British dominions, and such captured vessel, with her apparel, guns, and appertenances, and the goods or effects which shall be found on board the same, together with all the british persons and others who shall be found acting on board, to bring within some port of the United States; and also to retake any vessel, goods, and effects of the people of the United States, which may have been captured by any British armed vessel, in order that proceedings may be had concerning such capture or recapture in due form of law, and as to right and justice shall appertain. The said Nicholas Millin is further authorized to detain, seize, and take all vessels and effects, to whomsoever belonging, which shall be liabel thereto according to the law of nations and the rights of the United States as a power at war, and to bring the same within some port of the United States, in order that due proceedings may be had thereon. This commission to continue in force during the pleasure of the president of the United States for the time being.

GIVEN under my hand and seal of the United States of America, at the City of Washington, the twelfth day of December in the year of our Lord, one thousand eight hundred and fourteen and of the independence of the said states the thirty ninth.

BY THE PRESIDENT James Madison
Jas. Monroe, Secretary of State.


Here's a link to more: http://www.constitution.org/mil/lmr/lmr.htm

 

[martletsquire]

Just caught a Myth Hunters episode about Captain Kidd and his treasure.

Found it interesting that what got him hung was the fact that he didn't have a copy of the ownership/shipping papers of a French ship he seized.

Paperwork, the bane of military and paramilitary since, well, since paper was invented.

Can't wait until that Sumerian cache of enlistment clay tablets is found.

 

[HG_B]

Just caught a Myth Hunters episode about Captain Kidd and his treasure.

Found it interesting that what got him hung was the fact that he didn't have a copy of the ownership/shipping papers of a French ship he seized.

They botched that show apparently. The British Admiralty declared him a pirate BEFORE he he returned from his cruise in the Indian Ocean. It was because of his behavior while privateer in that part of the world. Since he was wanted as a pirate BEFORE any papers, or lack thereof, could have been discovered that reason given holds NO water.

 

[rancke]

I read, not so long ago, but long enough that I can't remember where, that Kidd made the mistake of giving his letter(s) of marque to a Crown official who then "lost" them.


Hans

 

[HG_B]

I read, not so long ago, but long enough that I can't remember where, that Kidd made the mistake of giving his letter(s) of marque to a Crown official who then "lost" them.


Hans

That's possible as he was professing a mistake was made up until he was hung in Newcastle.

 

[martletsquire]

Damned Vilani bureaucrats...

 

[Timerover51]

Hell yeah, Letters of Marque and Reprisal! So, Timerover51, do you perchance have any legible versions? I ask because most of the ones I have found online are just photos and difficult to decipher. Either way, hoping you spead a bit more time and effort on this topic as it is near and dear to my heart. But it is your thread so do what thou will.

I have some issued by the Confederacy for use during the US Civil War that I can do a copy and paste job on, but they are strictly text documents, not the printed certificate, if those would do. I will see what I can come up with for earlier ones. I also have some Pirate Articles as well somewhere. Need to remember where they are on which computer.

 

[wbyrd]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOxw6vbDyo

A confederate marching song bemoaning the abundance of a certain legume making up a large portion of their rations.

 

[Carlobrand]

I read, not so long ago, but long enough that I can't remember where, that Kidd made the mistake of giving his letter(s) of marque to a Crown official who then "lost" them.


Hans

Apparently true story, although they were French passes, not letters of marque. At least according to the Wiki - they're usually pretty good, but they aren't 100%. Anyway, story is he took an Armenian ship that was commanded by an Englishman. The ship was traveling under French passes that hypothetically gave it the protection of the French government. He wanted to let the ship go when he found it had an English captain, but the prize was rich and the crew argued that having French passes brought the target under the purview of their letter of marque. He knew it'd be trouble but couldn't say no to the crew without triggering a mutiny, so kept the passes as proof. As expected, the Brit government branded him pirate for the seizure, and when they eventually caught him and brought him to trial, the passes went mysteriously missing. Passes were found misfiled amidst government papers in the early 20th century, so that part is true. Unfortunately, the charges also included murder of one of his own crewman, of which he was unquestionably guilty, so there was no escaping the noose even if he'd had the papers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Kidd

 

[Timerover51]

Hell yeah, Letters of Marque and Reprisal! So, Timerover51, do you perchance have any legible versions? I ask because most of the ones I have found online are just photos and difficult to decipher. Either way, hoping you spead a bit more time and effort on this topic as it is near and dear to my heart. But it is your thread so do what thou will.

I am working on the Letters of Marque, and I think my best bet for a legible copy will be either in the US Revolutionary War documents, the US War of 1812 documents, or the Official Records of the Union and Confederate Navies. Right now, would the following be sufficient for your purposes as a starter. It is the Bond document for a Confederate Letter of Marque.

FORM OF BOND.

Know all men by these presents, that we _______(1)_________ are bound to the Confederate States of America in the full sum of _____(2)______ thousand dollars, to the payment whereof well and truly to be made, we bind ourselves, our heirs, executors, and administrators, jointly and severally by these presents.

The condition of this obligation is such that whereas application has been made to the said Confederate States of America for the grant of a commission or letter of marque, and general reprisals, authorizing the ________(3)_____ or vessel called the ______________________ to act as a private armed vessel in the service of the Confederate States, on the high seas, against the United States of America, its ships and vessels, and those of its citizens, during the pendency of the war now existing between the said Confederate States and the said United States.

(1) This blank must be filled with the name of the commander for the time being, and the owner or owners, and at least two responsible sureties not interested in the vessel.
(2) This blank must be filled with a "five," if the vessel be provided only with 150 men or a less number; if with more than that number, the blank must be filled with a "ten."
(3) This blank must be filled with the character of the vessel, "ship”, "brig”, "schooner”, “steamer", etc.

I have transcribed the legislation by the Confederate Congress providing for Letters of Marque and the conditions under which they were to operate, along with the instructions from Jefferson Davis as to conduct. It is 7 pages, so a bit long to post here. If you are interested, I can email it to you in PDF format. Still going to work on a Certificate.

 

[Timerover51]

At Magnus, I sent you the copy of the Confederate Letter of Marque information. Enjoy.

 

[BlackBat242]

Apparently true story, although they were French passes, not letters of marque. At least according to the Wiki - they're usually pretty good, but they aren't 100%. Anyway, story is he took an Armenian ship that was commanded by an Englishman. The ship was traveling under French passes that hypothetically gave it the protection of the French government. He wanted to let the ship go when he found it had an English captain, but the prize was rich and the crew argued that having French passes brought the target under the purview of their letter of marque. He knew it'd be trouble but couldn't say no to the crew without triggering a mutiny, so kept the passes as proof. As expected, the Brit government branded him pirate for the seizure, and when they eventually caught him and brought him to trial, the passes went mysteriously missing. Passes were found misfiled amidst government papers in the early 20th century, so that part is true. Unfortunately, the charges also included murder of one of his own crewman, of which he was unquestionably guilty, so there was no escaping the noose even if he'd had the papers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Kidd

In 1910, Ralph Paine, an American doing treasure-hunting research in London, found Kidd's two French passes, misfiled at the Board of Trade.

In addition, one of the two whose testimony convicted him of murder had given quite different testimony to British Crown agents two years earlier - testimony which actually exonerated him - but Kidd was not able to get copies of that deposition to challenge the truthfulness of the later testimony.

 

[aramis]

[m;]I've copied Timerover's post with the CSA Letter of Marque into the reference area.[/m;]

It's an excellent exemplar.

 

[Timerover51]

[m;]I've copied Timerover's post with the CSA Letter of Marque into the reference area.[/m;]

It's an excellent exemplar.

Oh my!!! I think that I have achieved something. Thank you, Aramis.

 

[Timerover51]

The limitations of horse power when it comes to mobile field artillery. Taken from America's Munitions 1917-1919, by Benedict Crowell.

Both our 4.7-inch gun, model 1906, with which our troops have been equipped for a long time and which throws a projectile weighing 45 pounds a distance of about 6 miles, and the French 75-millimeter (2.95-inch) gum, successfully used by the French since 1897, were designed to be drawn by horses, and the guns are best used when drawn by teams of 6 or 8 horses. As the horse has a sustained pulling power of only 650 pounds, it is obvious that the weight to be drawn by the team of 6 horses must not be more than 3,900 pounds. So there is every incentive for making mobile artillery of this kind as light as possible, consistent with the strength required for the work to be done. Thus the pulling power of the horse coupled with his speed has been the limiting factor in the design and weight of mobile field artUlery.