It's a specific rule in GT:ISW. Simply, their premise is that the Jump "math" is easier with a large gravity source (i.e. a star), and the more advanced math that allows empty space jumps wasn't practical until after GT:ISW.
Vote Your Canon #1: Empty Hex Jumps (consensus: YES)
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AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Just carry more fuel. We have demountable and collapsible tanks to retrofit existing ships for this. It was even a plot device in TTA.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
We have super computers and super nerds, who'll more than be enthusiastic to give it a go.
However, I do think the premise is that the Vilani have the same issue, despite technological level eleven and jump factor two drives.
However, I do think the premise is that the Vilani have the same issue, despite technological level eleven and jump factor two drives.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
There is nothing in the CT rules to preclude empty hex jumps.
Twilight's Peak and The Traveller Adventure make it explicit they are routine within the Third Imperium setting.
The reason why they were 'questioned' was the rules of the Imperium boardgame which require ships to follow the jump lines and the only way to cross empty hexes is by STL (at 0.9c). This same rule applied in Dark Nebula but with one difference, there was a technological discovery possibility that allowed your culture to learn how to jump to empty hexes.
So during the writing and playtesting of GT:ISW there was much discussion of how this would work.
The consensus was that the maths of jump was such that jumping from system to system was safe, the maths for empty hex jumping was not solvable for centuries to come (I suggested that empty hex jumps carry a greater risk of misjump but that didn't gain any traction).
Twilight's Peak and The Traveller Adventure make it explicit they are routine within the Third Imperium setting.
The reason why they were 'questioned' was the rules of the Imperium boardgame which require ships to follow the jump lines and the only way to cross empty hexes is by STL (at 0.9c). This same rule applied in Dark Nebula but with one difference, there was a technological discovery possibility that allowed your culture to learn how to jump to empty hexes.
So during the writing and playtesting of GT:ISW there was much discussion of how this would work.
The consensus was that the maths of jump was such that jumping from system to system was safe, the maths for empty hex jumping was not solvable for centuries to come (I suggested that empty hex jumps carry a greater risk of misjump but that didn't gain any traction).
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Fortunately for the existence of Terra as an independent world, Vilani expansion to rimward stopped several parsecs from Terra before the Vilani era of cultural stagnation began. Terrans discovered a Vilani outpost at Barnard in -2422 as part of their first interstellar voyage using the jump drive. The discovery of a huge interstellar state ruled by humans not from Earth caused panic and indignation among the people and nations of Terra.
The First Interstellar War began when a Vilani merchant convoy ignored Terran traffic control signals from the Terran base in the Barnard system; the Terrans believed an attack was imminent and destroyed some of the convoy's ships. It and the early subsequent wars tended to be limited affairs in which a few systems changed hands.
How did we get to Barnard Star?
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
According to GT ISW
FORD PREFECT:
We hitched a lift.
ARTHUR DENT:
Excuse me? Are you trying to tell me that we just stuck out our thumbs and some bug-eyed monster stuck his head out and said, “Hi fellows, hop right in, I can take you as far as the Basingstoke roundabout.”?
FORD PREFECT:
Well, the thumb’s an electronic sub-ether device, the roundabout’s at Barnard’s star, six light years away, but otherwise, that’s more or less right.
ARTHUR DENT:
And the bug-eyed monster?
FORD PREFECT:
Is green, yes.
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 1K
"Me? I came the simple way, down the stairs."
"Down the stairs! To URSA MINOR?!? Man you must be unbelievably fit."
Those are 81 book 2 rules in the 77 book 2 the Type Y was jump 1 with enough fuel for a refueling of the ships boat.
I did not know that (the copy of '77 rules I saw was back in '81 or so; belonged to the ref and he did his own house rules for shipbuilding and commerce).
With the "77" LBBs jumping into an empty hex would not be a problem, using all your fuel and trying to leave would be a problem.
Garnfellow
SOC-13
I've never understood why people present this question as a binary. I'm with Mike on this one -- empty hex jumps are possible, but should be somehow riskier than jumping into an occupied hex, enough so that an empty hex is generally considered a significant barrier at lower TLs. Higher TLs reduce the risk such that at maybe TL13+ an empty hex jump is routine.
How about this:
*ALL* plotted hex-jumps are inherently somewhat risky (empty or not); When jumping to a non-empty hex destination the astrogator routinely plots a jumpline that intersects with the gravity well of the destination to force-precipitate the ship out of Jump at the desired exit point, because it produces an inherently more certain outcome.
Yes. But unless you have the fuel to get back I don't see why you would.
The rationale would be that if you have (for example) a J-1 ship and you need to get to a destination that is 2pc away that does not have an occupied hex in between, if you have the fuel (either thru additional internal standard fuel tankage or a de-mountable or collapsible tank installed in the cargo hold), how difficult is it to do?
We had a game way back were our Free Trader mis-jumped into an empty hex. As luck would have it the Missing Amuar was there. The crew was dead from Jump-Sickness and the ship fuel tank was empty. Remember these were "77" rules there was just enough fuel in its Shuttle,Pinnace,and two Lifeboats for us to jump out to a hex with a spaceport. This only worked because in the 77 book 2 the Type A only needed 30 tons on fuel.
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 1K
Riskier ... how?
By definition, in an empty hex (that is actually empty) there's "nothing to hit" out there.
At best, an argument can be made that breakout from jump inside an empty hex is going to be less precise and more of a Navigator skill challenge to pinpoint your exact location ... but even then it's not like you're going to somehow "miss the hex" or something equally ridiculous. However, when that kind of imprecision offers no meaningful risk of loss of craft, risk of injury to crew or a threat to continued navigation to points beyond ... what is the real risk involved?
I mean ... if you (deliberately) shoot your shotgun away from the barn, does the fact that you missed the barn door have any relevance to what happened?
My point being that at best navigation into and out of an empty hex might be a "higher than average skill challenge" but it isn't going to represent some kind of technological "you must be this TL to make this jump" barrier to capability.
Empty hex jumps:
- Need Navigator-1 skill minimum, regardless of ship size ... okay, that I'll buy (since ships 200 tons or less do not require a Navigator).
- Need to be TL=13+ before it can be done ... NOPE, not buying that AT ALL.
Navigator-1 for sure, 2 or 3 even better. It's where the heck are we and where do we need to go from here. But you need rules newer then "77" or be really lucky (like finding a comet or rouge GG ) to get out of an empty hex. But of course, a good referee will always let you find one after a little sweating by the group.Riskier ... how?
By definition, in an empty hex (that is actually empty) there's "nothing to hit" out there.
At best, an argument can be made that breakout from jump inside an empty hex is going to be less precise and more of a Navigator skill challenge to pinpoint your exact location ... but even then it's not like you're going to somehow "miss the hex" or something equally ridiculous. However, when that kind of imprecision offers no meaningful risk of loss of craft, risk of injury to crew or a threat to continued navigation to points beyond ... what is the real risk involved?
I mean ... if you (deliberately) shoot your shotgun away from the barn, does the fact that you missed the barn door have any relevance to what happened?
My point being that at best navigation into and out of an empty hex might be a "higher than average skill challenge" but it isn't going to represent some kind of technological "you must be this TL to make this jump" barrier to capability.
Empty hex jumps:
- Need Navigator-1 skill minimum, regardless of ship size ... okay, that I'll buy (since ships 200 tons or less do not require a Navigator).
- Need to be TL=13+ before it can be done ... NOPE, not buying that AT ALL.
