Assignments, Mercenary & Navy

[Quint]

Has anyone come across (and forgive me if I'm missing it someplace) or have a good source for a description of what the various assignments canonically mean? I've been crunching some numbers on the various assignments by branch & service, but in doing so I began to wonder what the intended/proposed definitions were?

E.g. What is different about Internal Security as opposed to Counter-Insurgency as opposed to Police Actions? What's the difference between a Strike and a Battle?

Just wondering if anyone has a source or has come up with some quick definitions themselves?

Thanks,

D.

 

[McPerth]

Has anyone come across (and forgive me if I'm missing it someplace) or have a good source for a description of what the various assignments canonically mean? I've been crunching some numbers on the various assignments by branch & service, but in doing so I began to wonder what the intended/proposed definitions were?

E.g. What is different about Internal Security as opposed to Counter-Insurgency as opposed to Police Actions? What's the difference between a Strike and a Battle?

Just wondering if anyone has a source or has come up with some quick definitions themselves?

Thanks,

D.

As I understand them:

Mercenary:

• Counter-insurgency: Fignting against a guerrilla (e.g. sent to Efate to fight the Ine Givar)
• Internal Security: military police or similar
• Police Action: Supporting the police against riots, in SWAT actions (as the British SAS does), etc (not against organized guerrillas, as that would fall under counter-insurgency

HG:

• Stirke: hit and run raid (or skirmished or commerce raiding)
• Battle: protracted combat against other battlefleets

But that's only my interpretation, not holy writ...

 

[Reban]

Quick question: Are you using a particular rules set?

To answer your question:

An Insurgent is a person fighting against a government or invading force; a rebel or revolutionary. So counter insurgency is any military or security operation against such persons. its different to pure military operations in that the insurgents often employ tactics not used by a classic military, such as guerrilla tactics, terrorism, sabotage or kidnappings. To fight against such tactics you have to employ some special tactics of your own. What they are depends on the situation although you can say that light infantry are usually the best able to accomplish the counter insurgency mission.

Internal Security is about protecting from threats from within. There is a lot of overlap with counter insurgency except insurgents may be coming in from outside your area of operations or receiving outside support. In the internal security role you and the trouble makers are living side by side.

Police Action is far more a political term than a description of what you're doing. "Police" implies that the enemy are just criminals and "Action" implies that its something short and sharp and nobody at home needs to worry about getting into a long war.

In all the above light infantry or special gendarme forces are favored over artillery or armor units and often such units will find themselves operating as light forces.

A Strike suggests an attack or a raid at some distance from your base of operations to accomplish some objective, probably destruction of a military target.

Battle suggests two forces meeting and engaging in combat.

As for what each mission means to each branch well that depends entirely on the situation. You can have broad definitions of the roles of different kinds of troops in combat but its hard to come up with a one or two line defintion that covers everything.

 

[Quint]

Classic Traveller, using LBB4 & LBB5.

I like where you both coming from - I actually really like McPerth's definition of "Police Action" - but I'm not sure the branch assignments make sense. My sense is that it was meant much more in the Vietnam sense of "Police Action".

The question for me arose when I looked at Internal Security with no Artillery (Army or Marine) and no Army Infantry, but where regular Marines are used.

I certainly get what an "insurgent" is, but trying to understand, sans any actual definition, what the writers meant by the meaning of the various yearly assignments in the context of the Third Imperium is a bit more slippery.

D.

 

[samuelvss]

Internal Security is about protecting from threats from within. There is a lot of overlap with counter insurgency except insurgents may be coming in from outside your area of operations or receiving outside support. In the internal security role you and the trouble makers are living side by side.

I read this more as akin to what in US doctrine we would call "Foreign Internal Defense;" the friendly actions are internal to the state being defended, though its enemies may not be. We send our troops over to defend State A by training A's troops, so it can fight State B. Our troops aren't there to fight B's folks, and will not be on B's territory. FID

Police Action is far more a political term than a description of what you're doing. "Police" implies that the enemy are just criminals and "Action" implies that its something short and sharp and nobody at home needs to worry about getting into a long war

I would take some from your definition of Internal Defense and add it to this. Thus a Police Action is in the nature of law enforcement against internal threats to law and order, who are not themselves targeting the government. Drug interdiction comes under this, as does riot control. Insurgents, while breaking laws, intend to overthrow the government; they are a very specific subset of criminals. Counter-insurgency specifically defends a government against an insurgency, while a Police Action does not.

 

[RandyB]

Police Action is far more a political term than a description of what you're doing. "Police" implies that the enemy are just criminals and "Action" implies that its something short and sharp and nobody at home needs to worry about getting into a long war.

I would take some from your definition of Internal Defense and add it to this. Thus a Police Action is in the nature of law enforcement against internal threats to law and order, who are not themselves targeting the government. Drug interdiction comes under this, as does riot control. Insurgents, while breaking laws, intend to overthrow the government; they are a very specific subset of criminals. Counter-insurgency specifically defends a government against an insurgency, while a Police Action does not.

I always read Police Action in the context of the Korean War - open battlefield conflict, but less intense than the total war represented by the two World Wars.

 

[McPerth]

Classic Traveller, using LBB4 & LBB5.

I like where you both coming from - I actually really like McPerth's definition of "Police Action" - but I'm not sure the branch assignments make sense. My sense is that it was meant much more in the Vietnam sense of "Police Action".

(...)

]I certainly get what an "insurgent" is, but trying to understand, sans any actual definition, what the writers meant by the meaning of the various yearly assignments in the context of the Third Imperium is a bit more slippery.

Precisely Vietnam is what I see as a good example of counter-insurgency, not police action, seeing that latter more as when a governor calls the National Guard to booster the police in emergencies (see that with many planets having very high Law Levels, that could happen quite more often in Traveller universe). Also would be Police Action forming part of a militarized police, as the French Gendarmes, the Italian Carabinieri or the Spanish Guardia Civil.

Why such police actions are considered combat assignments escapes me, though...

The question for me arose when I looked at Internal Security with no Artillery (Army or Marine) and no Army Infantry, but where regular Marines are used.

Here is where I seem to diagree the most with other posts, as I see Internal Security as Internal to the own corps, not to the state, so Military (naval in case of Marines) Police. Keeping the seccurity of the state would be more likely to Police Action, IMHO.

 

[Reban]

I read this more as akin to what in US doctrine we would call "Foreign Internal Defense;" the friendly actions are internal to the state being defended, though its enemies may not be. We send our troops over to defend State A by training A's troops, so it can fight State B. Our troops aren't there to fight B's folks, and will not be on B's territory. FID

That definition seems a little problematic in the context of the Imperium. What exactly is "Foreign" to the Imperium? There are worlds that are not in the Imperium and there are foreign Stellar Empires, but I see Internal Security as internal to the State, not external to the State, so it's an intervention to secure Imperial worlds and space by military means. In other words, that no threat arises within the worlds of, or space controlled by the Imperium that could spread.

I would take some from your definition of Internal Defense and add it to this. Thus a Police Action is in the nature of law enforcement against internal threats to law and order, who are not themselves targeting the government. Drug interdiction comes under this, as does riot control. Insurgents, while breaking laws, intend to overthrow the government; they are a very specific subset of criminals. Counter-insurgency specifically defends a government against an insurgency, while a Police Action does not.

I checked the Wikipedia definition of Police Action: "Police action in military/security studies and international relations is a euphemism for a military action undertaken without a formal declaration of war".

That's not law enforcement, at least not criminal law, international law perhaps.

From experience I'd put drug interdiction and riot control under internal security. Drug interdiction beyond ones borders might be part of a Police Action, The British Opium Wars might be a twisted example of that (since they were opening a drug supply not interdicting a supply).

Strangely from history I see more examples of police forces being used in counter insurgency situations and pure military engaged in police actions.

I always read Police Action in the context of the Korean War - open battlefield conflict, but less intense than the total war represented by the two World Wars.

I came at this thinking of the British Empire in Aden and the Malayan Emergency and discovered that the Kingdom of the Netherlands gave rise to the phrase in 1883 while rescuing sailors who had been taken hostage and later used the term again to describe intervention in their colonies during the Indonesian National Revolution.

These are two imperial powers using the term to describe military intervention without saying that they are involved in a war against an enemy.

Vietnam and Korea are also examples, but I think specifically where the conflict changes from having military advisers working with local forces to sending in US troops to actually fight the undeclared war.

Police Action is a good term to use if you want to keep the audience at home calm:

"Whats this war against the rebels all about?"

"Oh its not a war its just a Police Action".

"Well that doesn't sound so bad...but why are we policing these natives with strategic bombers?".

Another example of police actions would be the way in which the British Empire used the RAF to "police" tribes in Iraq during the 1920s. When tribes like the Kurds gathered and planned to rebel against the colonial administration the RAF sent bombers to first leaflet the towns warning the natives and then to bomb them.

 

[Reban]

Classic Traveller, using LBB4 & LBB5.

......

The question for me arose when I looked at Internal Security with no Artillery (Army or Marine) and no Army Infantry, but where regular Marines are used.

......

I've lost you here Quint. I'm looking at p.6 of LBB4 Mercenary at the Unit Assignment table and I see Infantry getting Internal Security assignments, only the Artillery don't get it as an assignment.

As for Marines on Internal Security, they are refered to as "the Police" because when they turn up at a fight they tend to bang heads and take names. They are also used to defend Imperial Embassies, Starports and Naval Bases. That kind of mission is defence of Imperial property.

Not using Artillery for internal security makes sense, you don't use heavy artillery to keep the peace and discourage attacks. I know of real life situations where gunners have been sent out on foot patrol during security operations.

I would say however an internal security force would benefit from the Observation and Surveilance equipment and skills of the artillery. Also no force should be without some indirect fire support, although this can be organic to an infantry unit. Finally I think there'll be a future role for air defence artillery in future internal security operations, especially defending against drone attacks.

 

[McPerth]

That definition seems a little problematic in the context of the Imperium. What exactly is "Foreign" to the Imperium? There are worlds that are not in the Imperium and there are foreign Stellar Empires, but I see Internal Security as internal to the State, not external to the State, so it's an intervention to secure Imperial worlds and space by military means. In other words, that no threat arises within the worlds of, or space controlled by the Imperium that could spread.

See that most CharGen tables in Mercenary are not Imperial services (even the very existence of an Imperial Army has been questioned in the same board), but probably local ones, be them planetary or national in balkanized planets.

Even for the Marines, if it was only about Imperial Marines then there will not be the +1 in MOS table for TL 12+, as all of them would be TL 15.

I checked the Wikipedia definition of Police Action: "Police action in military/security studies and international relations is a euphemism for a military action undertaken without a formal declaration of war".

I must admit this makes quite more sense that what I thought as to be considered combat assignment...

 

[Quint]

I've lost you here Quint. I'm looking at p.6 of LBB4 Mercenary at the Unit Assignment table and I see Infantry getting Internal Security assignments, only the Artillery don't get it as an assignment...

LOL, yeah, ok, I messed that up when I was transferring numbers to calculate ratio/percentages of assignments - though I still have the same questions about what the various assignments mean.

My bad!

D.

 

[Quint]

See that most CharGen tables in Mercenary are not Imperial services (even the very existence of an Imperial Army has been questioned in the same board), but probably local ones, be them planetary or national in balkanized planets. Even for the Marines, if it was only about Imperial Marines then there will not be the +1 in MOS table for TL 12+, as all of them would be TL 15.

On the one hand, while I can admit that this might be true, I would suggest that the existence of the various Alien modules with their advanced chargen suggest that Bk4 is meant to represent "an Imperium standard" to contrast with those tables and rules.

Fundamentally, also, for the purposes of this discussion it doesn't matter if there is an Imperial Army or various and sundry Armies of the Imperial planets that are used as needed - for the assignments listed (at those ratios) in Bk4.

D.

 

[Quint]

So, as this discussion has gone on -

I see "Police Action" as perhaps being akin to the various peacekeeping missions in West Africa, Kosovo, Panama, Grenada, etc.

"Internal Security" seems more like Northern Ireland, or National Guard activation during civil unrest, drug interdiction via military forces.

"Counter-Insurgency" is more like a classic Vietnam, Malaya, etc.

Clearly, these are sloppy, sloppy labels, and in multi-force deployments you could have people doing the same work under different labels (Local forces are engaged in counter-insurgency while foreign troops are engaging in a police action).

D.

 

[rancke]

So, as this discussion has gone on -

I see "Police Action" as perhaps being akin to the various peacekeeping missions in West Africa, Kosovo, Panama, Grenada, etc.

"Internal Security" seems more like Northern Ireland, or National Guard activation during civil unrest, drug interdiction via military forces.

"Counter-Insurgency" is more like a classic Vietnam, Malaya, etc.

Sounds reasonable to me.

Clearly, these are sloppy, sloppy labels, and in multi-force deployments you could have people doing the same work under different labels (Local forces are engaged in counter-insurgency while foreign troops are engaging in a police action).

But the labels in the character generation rules covers objective differences (expressed in the different die rolls).


Hans

 

[Condottiere]

It's mostly an exercise in semantics, but based on the wording, you'd assume that with counter insurgency you're facing at least a considerable portion of a hostile populace, with an effective militant arm that can selectively take on the security forces.

Police action infers that the security forces are mostly in control or in the process of suppressing armed resistance.

Internal security implies overt control, but that a military presence is required to reinforce it.

 

[Reban]

Clearly, these are sloppy, sloppy labels, and in multi-force deployments you could have people doing the same work under different labels (Local forces are engaged in counter-insurgency while foreign troops are engaging in a police action).

In the real world these labels are often sloppily applied too. In truth in any given situation where you deploy troops they'll be engaged in many different types of mission during a conflict. What may start as a police action may develop into a protracted counter insurgency operation with a portion of the troops providing internal security in areas that have been stabilized and cleared of insurgent activity.

 

[Reban]

See that most CharGen tables in Mercenary are not Imperial services (even the very existence of an Imperial Army has been questioned in the same board), but probably local ones, be them planetary or national in balkanized planets.

Even for the Marines, if it was only about Imperial Marines then there will not be the +1 in MOS table for TL 12+, as all of them would be TL 15.

Fair enough, although I'm firmly in the camp of "there is an Imperial Army" although there are many ways it might be implemented. Seeing as its an In the OTU thread I thought it best to take the top down view of how "the Imperium" would approach each assignment type. The Zhos, the Sword Worlders, Solimani and all the local, planetary level and below, militaries would face slightly different opponents and circumstances.

I think we can paint some broad brush strokes at what LBB4 means by each assignment, but its up to the Ref and the Player to really flesh out how that assignment was experienced by the character. Here's my take:

Raid
You were part of a strike into enemy held territory. The objective was to get in and out and accomplish whatever your commander's aims were, it was not to take or occupy enemy territory. The objective of your raid may have been to destroy a specific target, to take prisoners or steal supplies, you may have been probing the enemy defenses for intelligence or purely harassing him. Surprise and speed were key.

Counter Insurgency
The locals were making trouble and you were sent to combat them. Intelligence and light infantry skills were most important in finding and engaging the enemy. As well as going out and fighting the enemy combatants part of the job was winning hearts and minds of the population. You tracked the enemy down, cleared him out of areas, assisted with the rebuilding then provided security as the administration re-established control. It was a strange assignment never quite knowing who the enemy were or where they might strike next.

Police Action
You were involved in a short sharp military action designed to impose the will of your government on the enemy. It wasn't a war, because nobody could challenge your government, and they don't get involved in wars that are long and costly, but there was a lot of combat. When you were finished the enemy administration had come around to your way of thinking, or had been replaced.

Garrison
People say garrison duty is boring, but most garrison are located near training areas where skills can be honed and training exercises conducted. When you're not training your cleaning or drilling or doing the job the garrison was sited there for; keeping an eye on the locals. You have to be ready to be called out at a moments notice, whether thats being mobilized for war, deployed for limited combat operations or providing aid to the civil power in disaster and emergency situations.

Internal Security
You were sent somewhere dangerous, where part of the population had to be watched and guarded against. There was a lot of patrolling, first to show your presence, reassure the good people and discourage the bad, second to obtain intelligence. You observed everything, out on patrol or setting up an OP to watch the movements of suspected enemy. If you had technical skills you may have gathered signals intelligence listening into enemy communications. You guarded things too, things the enemy wanted to get to. That meant more patrols and roadblocks and security checkpoints. When things went wrong you were part of a quick reaction force, dispatched to deal with the trouble.

Ships Troops
You were assigned aboard ship as a deployable combat element of the ship's company. The crew actually operated the ship but you had plenty of other responsibilities when not deployed. Security within the ship, posting guards on vital areas, acting as ship's police, reacting to boarders if they made it on board. You might be deployed away from your ship for short or extended periods but your ship was always your home and your base. Combat operations and landings were what you expected but there were also humanitarian missions and show the flag events where you had to do the whole dog and pony show.


You know what's missing from that list; All Out War.

 

[McPerth]

On the one hand, while I can admit that this might be true, I would suggest that the existence of the various Alien modules with their advanced chargen suggest that Bk4 is meant to represent "an Imperium standard" to contrast with those tables and rules.

Fundamentally, also, for the purposes of this discussion it doesn't matter if there is an Imperial Army or various and sundry Armies of the Imperial planets that are used as needed - for the assignments listed (at those ratios) in Bk4.

Fair enough, although I'm firmly in the camp of "there is an Imperial Army" although there are many ways it might be implemented. Seeing as its an In the OTU thread I thought it best to take the top down view of how "the Imperium" would approach each assignment type. The Zhos, the Sword Worlders, Solimani and all the local, planetary level and below, militaries would face slightly different opponents and circumstances.

My reference to most LBB4 Chargen not being about Imperial Forces was an answer to Reban's question about what exactly is "Foreign" to the Imperium?, not tryong to discuss about Imperial Army.

If you asume they are not Imperial Forces, but planetary/national ones (as, IMHO, any Army under TL 15 would be), the term "foreign" is quite clear...

I think we can paint some broad brush strokes at what LBB4 means by each assignment, but its up to the Ref and the Player to really flesh out how that assignment was experienced by the character. Here's my take:

Raid
You were part of a strike into enemy held territory. The objective was to get in and out and accomplish whatever your commander's aims were, it was not to take or occupy enemy territory. The objective of your raid may have been to destroy a specific target, to take prisoners or steal supplies, you may have been probing the enemy defenses for intelligence or purely harassing him. Surprise and speed were key.

Counter Insurgency
The locals were making trouble and you were sent to combat them. Intelligence and light infantry skills were most important in finding and engaging the enemy. As well as going out and fighting the enemy combatants part of the job was winning hearts and minds of the population. You tracked the enemy down, cleared him out of areas, assisted with the rebuilding then provided security as the administration re-established control. It was a strange assignment never quite knowing who the enemy were or where they might strike next.

Police Action
You were involved in a short sharp military action designed to impose the will of your government on the enemy. It wasn't a war, because nobody could challenge your government, and they don't get involved in wars that are long and costly, but there was a lot of combat. When you were finished the enemy administration had come around to your way of thinking, or had been replaced.

Garrison
People say garrison duty is boring, but most garrison are located near training areas where skills can be honed and training exercises conducted. When you're not training your cleaning or drilling or doing the job the garrison was sited there for; keeping an eye on the locals. You have to be ready to be called out at a moments notice, whether thats being mobilized for war, deployed for limited combat operations or providing aid to the civil power in disaster and emergency situations.

Internal Security
You were sent somewhere dangerous, where part of the population had to be watched and guarded against. There was a lot of patrolling, first to show your presence, reassure the good people and discourage the bad, second to obtain intelligence. You observed everything, out on patrol or setting up an OP to watch the movements of suspected enemy. If you had technical skills you may have gathered signals intelligence listening into enemy communications. You guarded things too, things the enemy wanted to get to. That meant more patrols and roadblocks and security checkpoints. When things went wrong you were part of a quick reaction force, dispatched to deal with the trouble.

Ships Troops
You were assigned aboard ship as a deployable combat element of the ship's company. The crew actually operated the ship but you had plenty of other responsibilities when not deployed. Security within the ship, posting guards on vital areas, acting as ship's police, reacting to boarders if they made it on board. You might be deployed away from your ship for short or extended periods but your ship was always your home and your base. Combat operations and landings were what you expected but there were also humanitarian missions and show the flag events where you had to do the whole dog and pony show.

I moslty agree with your points here, but see many of them may overlap:

Many (most) times counter-insurgency is what is really labeled as Police Action, as the insurgents are ofter refered as "bandits" or "criminals".

To avoid the slimest chance of it developing to politics, I'll try to kepe my examples prior to 1945:

Boer War: would it be qualified as counter-insurgency or police action (see that for the Boers, it would probably qualify as Raid)?

Same to Napoleon's Grand Armée in Spain...

As for Internal security, I keep thinking on them more as Corps internal security (opposite to State internal security), as I see the risk and rewards too low to represent more active duties. Also see that in MT, Marines are assigned to ship's troops instead of Internal security (I see them as Ship's security personnel). Against this last argument, the yare also assigned to ship's troops instead of counter insurgency...

You know what's missing from that list; All Out War.

I always thought that was because Imperium does not allow all-out wars inside its borders, but that is not coherent with some mercenary tickets (as Aramanx).

In any case, if you assume it to be englobed in other assignments, it must be in Raid, Police action or Counter Insurgency (as they are the combat assignments).

 

[Reban]

I moslty agree with your points here, but see many of them may overlap:

This is very true. I think these assignment could easily be seen as stages of a campaign, one blending into the next. Say your character during character creation joins the Army.

The first assignment of the first term is basic training. Next he roles counter insurgency followed by internal security and finally garrison. Thats a whole four year long campaign ready made.

After basic he's sent to fight the rebels, the campaign goes well and they are defeated militarily in the field so switch to terrorist tactics reacquiring an internal security operation. Once the terrorists are defeated the character settles down to serve out his first term as part of the garrison of the pacified area.

You can build a narrative of the campaign to suit the assignments roled. As I said these assignments are broad brush strokes for the Ref and players to fill in.

As for Internal security, I keep thinking on them more as Corps internal security (opposite to State internal security), as I see the risk and rewards too low to represent more active duties. Also see that in MT, Marines are assigned to ship's troops instead of Internal security (I see them as Ship's security personnel). Against this last argument, the yare also assigned to ship's troops instead of counter insurgency...

Well my experience of Internal Security operations is the British Army in Northern Ireland so my definition of internal security operations comes direct from their manuals.

"Security" within a formation conducting operations is a different thing , and is the responsibility of each unit in a field formation at all times. Recon elements provide security for the main body as they reach their forming up points. Cavalry provide flank security by detecting an enemy trying to out flank the formation. Military police provide rear area and line of communication security etc.

As I understand it security operations are something every unit does as part of their normal role not a separate assignment where one designated unit tries to provide security for a whole formation in the field.

One way my definition of internal security overlaps with yours is that I see Internal Security as including the guarding of military installations. That is not just in a passive security guard role but by active inteeligence gathering on potential threats.






A quick note on "Police Action" for the thread in general. In my head it never links with law enforcement because "to police" has definitions other than those linked to law enforcement i.e. 1. An archaic form of "Govern" and 2. to make clean and put in order.

Its that second definition that defines Police Action for me. Someone decides to clean up a problem and put it in order by sending in the military in a "police action".

 

[mike wightman]

There is no doubt that there is an Imperial Army:

The Imperial Interstellar Scout Service is a major service within the Imperium.
equal in stature to the Imperial Army and the Imperial Navy,

Note that this is from LBB:6 by which time the rulebooks are written specifically for the Imperial setting.

LBB:4 was still a generic rulebook, the Imperium being a vague notion of an empire in the background, the character generation tables allow for referee flexibility in defining which army the character is from (a bit odd that every army has exactly the same branches and rank structure, but hey ho).

LBB:5 was where the idea of dedicated Imperial force character generation makes it into the game, you try for the IN, SN or PN with different enlistment rolls, an idea which may have made sense to retcon into LBB:4.

Vietnam - from the US perspective it began as a training mission, became a police action, moved up to a counter insurgency and then a full blown war.