Most Classic Traveller ships plans don't show the ships galley or the beds. Some don't even show the head.
CT Only: Fixing the Type S (Sulieman)
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That's what I was getting at. AHL shows consoles (mostly so they can catch stray shots and explode) but no in-quarters detail. CT generally just has the seats on the bridge.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
If you use a vectored nozzle, you only need one manoeuvre drive module.
Most Classic Traveller ships plans don't show the ships galley or the beds. Some don't even show the head.
I think that by keeping the head in the plans it shows that it is shared and frees up the cabin space.
That's the intent. I'm looking at three ways to do the plans:
- make it look like it belongs in one of the LBB supplements from the '80s (just for kicks, and I really wish MS Paint supported greyscale so I could get closer to the style)
- make it look like it was done for AHL (because that's the more-current version and allows color-coding)
- make it look the way I want (which is mostly AHL but with more interior detail because I think it looks better that way)
Attic crawlspace bordered in Electronics.
Not sure I like it -- didn't get the fade effect I was looking for.
Edit: and I can't figure out how to get a gradient effect in Paint. Watercolor brush is close, but too inconsistent.
Not sure I like it -- didn't get the fade effect I was looking for.
Edit: and I can't figure out how to get a gradient effect in Paint. Watercolor brush is close, but too inconsistent.
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Pretty much there.
Changes:
- Reverted landing gear (10) to squares, with the inboard aft corners clipped at deck level (but not below that)
- Reverted hatch in drive bay (12) to ceiling only -- I don't think the drive bay needs to be two decks tall.
- Replaced cargo bay (13) exterior iris valve with a 3m wide bay door.
- Removed aft "sprawl and spin" area in crawlspace (19) since there's enough vertical clearance to crouch and pivot in the aft 1.5m in front of the hatch.:
- Added beds in staterooms (locations 4-7).
- Designated the airlocks leading to the cargo hold and air/raft bay as locations 11a and 11b.
Changes:
- Reverted landing gear (10) to squares, with the inboard aft corners clipped at deck level (but not below that)
- Reverted hatch in drive bay (12) to ceiling only -- I don't think the drive bay needs to be two decks tall.
- Replaced cargo bay (13) exterior iris valve with a 3m wide bay door.
- Removed aft "sprawl and spin" area in crawlspace (19) since there's enough vertical clearance to crouch and pivot in the aft 1.5m in front of the hatch.:
- Added beds in staterooms (locations 4-7).
- Designated the airlocks leading to the cargo hold and air/raft bay as locations 11a and 11b.
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Prints within margins at full size on 8.5"x14" (legal).
Crop image at the back of the ship (just inside the drives sticking out) and at the front of the avionics crawlspace (location 1) and you can get a full-size (1/2"=1.5m) map that includes all accessible areas within the ship, to fit onto an 8.5"x11" sheet.
When I do the thread for the final version, I'll provide pre-cropped images to make the latter part easier.
Looking for help with final proof-checking -- let me know if I missed anything. Thanks in advance!
Crop image at the back of the ship (just inside the drives sticking out) and at the front of the avionics crawlspace (location 1) and you can get a full-size (1/2"=1.5m) map that includes all accessible areas within the ship, to fit onto an 8.5"x11" sheet.
When I do the thread for the final version, I'll provide pre-cropped images to make the latter part easier.
Looking for help with final proof-checking -- let me know if I missed anything. Thanks in advance!
Note: Italics are what I've added to the Supp. 7 writeup, while obsolete text has been struck through. Yeah, I'll probably do a complete re-write of this as well.
Also, scroll up two posts -- I posted a really-close-to-final, I mean it this time guys, version of the deck plans again.
Scout/Courier (Type S): Using the type 100 hull, the scout/courier is equipped with four staterooms (allowing a total of eight passengers and crew if double occupancy is assumed -- this will require sleeping in shifts), but there are no low berths. The crew consists of a pilot who also doubles as navigator, engineer, and gunner; additional crew members to fill these slots may be hired on as desired. The ship has jump drive A, maneuver drive A, and power plant A, producing a performance of jump-2 and 2-G acceleration. The bridge has a computer Model/1bis (with a standard software package) and one ton of fire control space allocated to the ship's single hardpoint. The ship is fitted with a dual turret; the weaponry installed varies with the specific ship. The ship has a specially fitted hold which carries a single air/raft; there is a separate three-ton cargo hold. The hull is streamlined for atmospheric landings, and fuel scoops allow local refuelling from oceans or gas giants. Total fuel tankage is 40 tons. Base price to the government for a scout/courier is MCr27.63, which includes savings based on standardized designs. Architect's fees are not necessary, as they were amortized long ago.
Weaponry: The actual weaponry carried on the scout/courier varies with the mission accorded the ship. Couriers generally mount a single laser and a single missile rack. Exploratory scouts mount two missile racks. Detached duty scout/couriers are provided without weaponry, but the crew generally acquires some sort of firepower in a short time. Sandcasters are often equipped, as the Type S is susceptible to critical damage in combat.
Interior Details: The deck plan indicates the interior layout for the typical scout/courier. The staterooms (4, 5, 6, and 7) arelarge and spacious, an essential consideration "cozy", which can be problematic when the crew may be forced to spend long hours together. Fortunately, the ship can be operated with minimal crew. The common area (8) contains recreation equipment, a full lavatory with shower (8a), a galley (8b), and eating facilities. The rear section (13) serves many purposes; on scouts, it carries laboratory and sensor equipment; on couriers, it carries communication equipment and data banks; on detached duty ships, it is cleared out and become a lounge for the crew is the cargo hold. The forward cargo compartment airlock (20) carries three tons of cargo, and is accessible from just behind the bridge, or from outside and provides exits to both the top and underside of the hull, the latter adjacent to a ladder automatically deployed from the forward landing gear well. The upper gallery crawl space contains leads to the gunnery position (16), a storage area via an internal airlock (18) connecting the crawl space to the turret and the drive bay much like an attic, and a forward maintenance access to sensor position equipment above the crew quarters (19). It is 1m high from the forward iris valve to about 6m ahead of the internal airlock hatch, after which it increases to 1.5m tall at the aft end. There is a wider space at the front of the tunnel where one can turn around while lying flat, and enough height at the aft end to pivot in place. The void spaces within the hull (9) contain fuel, pumps, and other equipment. Two specific areas (10) contain the landing feet for the ship, including retraction equipment. The ship's locker (3 locations designated as #15) is divided between the two compartments behind the bridge and the lockers in the cargo hold (13). The cargo hold (13) and Air/raft bay (14) are accessed through internal airlocks (11a and 11b).
Costs: A new type S scout/courier, direct from the builder, costs MCr27.63. Using a standard financing arrangement, a down payment of MCr5.53 would be made, with monthly payments of Cr132,600 for 480 months following. Surplus scout/couriers can generally be had for MCr15 to MCr18, but those prices are for cash, and financing is difficult to obtain for such used vessels
Also, scroll up two posts -- I posted a really-close-to-final, I mean it this time guys, version of the deck plans again.
Scout/Courier (Type S): Using the type 100 hull, the scout/courier is equipped with four staterooms (allowing a total of eight passengers and crew if double occupancy is assumed -- this will require sleeping in shifts), but there are no low berths. The crew consists of a pilot who also doubles as navigator, engineer, and gunner; additional crew members to fill these slots may be hired on as desired. The ship has jump drive A, maneuver drive A, and power plant A, producing a performance of jump-2 and 2-G acceleration. The bridge has a computer Model/1bis (with a standard software package) and one ton of fire control space allocated to the ship's single hardpoint. The ship is fitted with a dual turret; the weaponry installed varies with the specific ship. The ship has a specially fitted hold which carries a single air/raft; there is a separate three-ton cargo hold. The hull is streamlined for atmospheric landings, and fuel scoops allow local refuelling from oceans or gas giants. Total fuel tankage is 40 tons. Base price to the government for a scout/courier is MCr27.63, which includes savings based on standardized designs. Architect's fees are not necessary, as they were amortized long ago.
Weaponry: The actual weaponry carried on the scout/courier varies with the mission accorded the ship. Couriers generally mount a single laser and a single missile rack. Exploratory scouts mount two missile racks. Detached duty scout/couriers are provided without weaponry, but the crew generally acquires some sort of firepower in a short time. Sandcasters are often equipped, as the Type S is susceptible to critical damage in combat.
Interior Details: The deck plan indicates the interior layout for the typical scout/courier. The staterooms (4, 5, 6, and 7) are
Costs: A new type S scout/courier, direct from the builder, costs MCr27.63. Using a standard financing arrangement, a down payment of MCr5.53 would be made, with monthly payments of Cr132,600 for 480 months following. Surplus scout/couriers can generally be had for MCr15 to MCr18, but those prices are for cash, and financing is difficult to obtain for such used vessels
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I would take away the lines that show the crawlspace to main deck hatches. You have where the hatch meets in the "Interior Details" write up, and I think the lines are too busy for someone wanting to game on it (like me). I just think they take away from the clean look of the deck plans like in the S-7 deck plans. I always liked the LBB deck plans but the ones you have been posting are really nice. I see this version has the cargo hatch I think that looks good.
Maybe and yes, I know its late in the game, you could put a Pullman style bed in the cabins, where the top bunk can be pulled down if needed. That way anymore than 4 crew and passengers would not have to hot bunk.
Maybe and yes, I know its late in the game, you could put a Pullman style bed in the cabins, where the top bunk can be pulled down if needed. That way anymore than 4 crew and passengers would not have to hot bunk.
Do you want to add a desk/clothing chest of drawers to the staterooms, or do you think that would be too much?
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 1K
By LBB2 RAW (both 77 and 81), the only crew required for a Scout/Courier is a pilot.
- Pilot: Required.
- Navigator: Only required on ships over 200 tons.
- Engineer: Only required on ships 200+ tons. 15/35=0.428571428571429 so only "43% of a position required" which rounds down to zero needed even if ignoring the "only required at 200+ tons" minimum threshold.
- Steward: Only needed for high passengers.
- Medic: Only needed on ships 200+ tons OR if the ship is selling passenger ticket services (low, middle, high).
- Gunner: Only needed if the turret has weapons installed (which by default it does not).
Scout/Couriers do not have weaponry installed by default, however weaponry may be added.
A slightly different emphasis than what you were saying.
The ship has a vehicle berth for a single air/raft
Problem here is that the 4 ton berth for the air/raft (starboard) is exactly the same size as the 3 ton cargo hold (port) on the deck plans @ 3x4 squares. Yes, yes, I see the "1 ton for ship's locker" (15) being taken out of the space for (13), but it still leaves the wrong impression.
A 4 ton vehicle berth ought to be 4*14/1.5/1.5/3=8.3 = 8 deck squares in size
A 3 ton cargo bay ought to be 3*14/1.5/1.5/3=6.2 = 6 deck squares in size
The 3x4 form factor you've put both of these features into is either 150% too big or 200% too big.
CT Errata, p7 includes a correction to the price of the Scout/Courier as being MCr29.43 after the LBB2 10% discount for volume production.
In a LBB5.80 combat context, where EP and Agility become important considerations, the Scout/Courier really can't afford energy weapons. The computer (model/1bis) is so anemic that the ship is barely effective as a combatant.
Taken in that broader context, the "best" weapon mix for a Scout/Courier is actually a TL=10 sandcaster/missile combination, which leaves all of the EP generated by the power plant available for Agility (to avoid getting hit). The (code: 3) sandcaster will have 3 canisters loaded into the launcher and the (code: 1) missile launcher will likewise have 3 missiles. The turret will accommodate an additional 12 reloads to be split between the sandcaster and missile launcher (I would expect 6+6 to be the typical loadout for a total of 9 sand shots and 9 missile shots before exhausting supplies, with most ship to ship battles being decided in less than 9 exchanges of fire). Against "opportunistic" (amateur) adversaries, this may be sufficient to fend off unwanted advances. Against "professional" (and thus well equipped) adversaries, these weapons are going to be little more than speed bumps (mainly due to the computer differential).
If you're sticking with LBB2.81 computer programming rules, in combat you need for your model/1bis (4 CPU / 0 Storage) to be running:
- Target (1 space)
- Launch (1 space)
- Maneuver (1 space)
Worse, the Target and Launch programs exceed the value of the basic software package for a model/1bis (being MCr1 and 2 respectively) where you're going to need to spend for Maneuver, Jump-1, Jump-2 and Navigation programs, which add up to a cost of MCr0.9, leaving only MCr0.1 remaining to buy any other programs as part of the basic software package (which is enough to buy Anti-Hijack).I'm personally convinced that this is the reason why LBB2 Scout/Couriers are detailed as having a turret with no weapons in them. Adding a sandcaster and a missile rack will cost 0.25+0.75=MCr1 for the weapons themselves, but also another MCr3 for the Target and Launch programs to enable those weapons to function under the LBB2.81 programming rules.
Did I ever mention that I never really cared for the LBB2 ship computer programming rules?
Starship value at resale tends to depreciate at 1% per year after construction delivery, so a 40 year old ship will retain 60% of its construction cost value.
1-(18/27.63) = ~ 65%
1-(15/27.63) = ~ 54%
Mind you, if you correct the construction cost to be MCr29.43 instead (or just scratch build using LBB2.81 to verify and make doubly sure) these surplus prices will probably change (probably...).
Obviously, there are plenty of other factors that can influence surplus and resale prices ...
... but the 1% per year benchmark gives Referees something to work with as a starting point.You could say that the cargo hold only has 6 useable squares. The Air Raft bay could have 8 useable squares with one square for tools and diagnostic equipment. The partial squares could be used for rear hatch machinery.By LBB2 RAW (both 77 and 81), the only crew required for a Scout/Courier is a pilot.
So an unarmed Scout/Courier that isn't selling passenger ticket services can be a literal "one man scout ship" crewed by a single pilot.
- Pilot: Required.
- Navigator: Only required on ships over 200 tons.
- Engineer: Only required on ships 200+ tons. 15/35=0.428571428571429 so only "43% of a position required" which rounds down to zero needed even if ignoring the "only required at 200+ tons" minimum threshold.
- Steward: Only needed for high passengers.
- Medic: Only needed on ships 200+ tons OR if the ship is selling passenger ticket services (low, middle, high).
- Gunner: Only needed if the turret has weapons installed (which by default it does not).
Scout/Couriers do not have weaponry installed by default, however weaponry may be added.
A slightly different emphasis than what you were saying.
The ship has a vehicle berth for a single air/raft
Problem here is that the 4 ton berth for the air/raft (starboard) is exactly the same size as the 3 ton cargo hold (port) on the deck plans @ 3x4 squares. Yes, yes, I see the "1 ton for ship's locker" (15) being taken out of the space for (13), but it still leaves the wrong impression.
A 4 ton vehicle berth ought to be 4*14/1.5/1.5/3=8.3 = 8 deck squares in size
A 3 ton cargo bay ought to be 3*14/1.5/1.5/3=6.2 = 6 deck squares in size
The 3x4 form factor you've put both of these features into is either 150% too big or 200% too big.
CT Errata, p7 includes a correction to the price of the Scout/Courier as being MCr29.43 after the LBB2 10% discount for volume production.
In a LBB5.80 combat context, where EP and Agility become important considerations, the Scout/Courier really can't afford energy weapons. The computer (model/1bis) is so anemic that the ship is barely effective as a combatant.
Taken in that broader context, the "best" weapon mix for a Scout/Courier is actually a TL=10 sandcaster/missile combination, which leaves all of the EP generated by the power plant available for Agility (to avoid getting hit). The (code: 3) sandcaster will have 3 canisters loaded into the launcher and the (code: 1) missile launcher will likewise have 3 missiles. The turret will accommodate an additional 12 reloads to be split between the sandcaster and missile launcher (I would expect 6+6 to be the typical loadout for a total of 9 sand shots and 9 missile shots before exhausting supplies, with most ship to ship battles being decided in less than 9 exchanges of fire). Against "opportunistic" (amateur) adversaries, this may be sufficient to fend off unwanted advances. Against "professional" (and thus well equipped) adversaries, these weapons are going to be little more than speed bumps (mainly due to the computer differential).
If you're sticking with LBB2.81 computer programming rules, in combat you need for your model/1bis (4 CPU / 0 Storage) to be running:
Leaving you with only 1 space remaining for another computer program during the combat round. That doesn't leave a whole lot of options.
- Target (1 space)
- Launch (1 space)
- Maneuver (1 space)
I'm personally convinced that this is the reason why LBB2 Scout/Couriers are detailed as having a turret with no weapons in them. Adding a sandcaster and a missile rack will cost 0.25+0.75=MCr1 for the weapons themselves, but also another MCr3 for the Target and Launch programs to enable those weapons to function under the LBB2.81 programming rules.
Did I ever mention that I never really cared for the LBB2 ship computer programming rules?
Starship value at resale tends to depreciate at 1% per year after construction delivery, so a 40 year old ship will retain 60% of its construction cost value.
1-(18/27.63) = ~ 65%
1-(15/27.63) = ~ 54%
Mind you, if you correct the construction cost to be MCr29.43 instead (or just scratch build using LBB2.81 to verify and make doubly sure) these surplus prices will probably change (probably...).
Obviously, there are plenty of other factors that can influence surplus and resale prices ...
Mostly agree. The only reason they're there is that the "upper deck" is not lined up with the main deck, and that could be confusing.
Might be a bit much. It's a detail I add to stand in for everything else that goes there too. Looks nicer than putting a "stateroom" label on it.
That entire post was me poking fun at how much work the S7 text needed.
Basically, I hit the part about "spacious" staterooms that physically could not fit into the hull and just went bonkers with the strikethough font....
(Or you could read the original S7 text with extreme sarcasm.)
S7's gonna S7, but it's probably there to describe what's expected on S/Cs that the players may encounter.
Re: LBB2 computer software budgets: they're kinda whack. It's a game mechanic thing.
Re: combat capability: keep a full tank, fire off sandcasters like it's July 4th while running for the 10D line and take the misjump. The odds are better. ( CT rules though.)
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With the description in the "Interior Details" I think most people would see how it worked. I guess I'm just not a fan of the lines.Mostly agree. The only reason they're there is that the "upper deck" is not lined up with the main deck, and that could be confusing.
Might be a bit much. It's a detail I add to stand in for everything else that goes there too. Looks nicer than putting a "stateroom" label on it.
I think you're right about the stateroom.Mostly agree. The only reason they're there is that the "upper deck" is not lined up with the main deck, and that could be confusing.
Might be a bit much. It's a detail I add to stand in for everything else that goes there too. Looks nicer than putting a "stateroom" label on it.
If I get around to doing the "old-school art style" version, there are going to be labels for everything on it, and no furniture. Not really my thing, but that's how they did it at the time.
There may be enough ceiling clearance to do that -- need to double-check that I started the stateroom block far enough aft for that. Would have been impossible with the original layout, since the outer forward corners would have been clipped off by the hull contours.
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