Merchants Run

[far-trader]

Well, I was wrong about the TL DM for trade, and sorry to say (because it makes sense to me too) that means you are as well Randy. There is an example, that I have somehow overlooked, right there in Book 2, p. 8:

"For example, if the ship is on a population 6 world, going to a population 3 world with tech level 3 less than the current world... (... -4 for the low population of the destination, +3 for the tech level difference)"

Couldn't be any clearer. Thanks to K Bailey (whose handle here escapes me at the moment, take a bow ) for pointing me to it, and for stating the rule succinctly enough even for the table and with crystal clarity:

"TL DM = (source TL - destination TL)"

So check your prospectus and route calcultions please I know mine are all reversed on that DM

 

[far-trader]

Well, I was wrong about the TL DM for trade, and sorry to say (because it makes sense to me too) that means you are as well Randy. There is an example, that I have somehow overlooked, right there in Book 2, p. 8:

"For example, if the ship is on a population 6 world, going to a population 3 world with tech level 3 less than the current world... (... -4 for the low population of the destination, +3 for the tech level difference)"

Couldn't be any clearer. Thanks to K Bailey (whose handle here escapes me at the moment, take a bow ) for pointing me to it, and for stating the rule succinctly enough even for the table and with crystal clarity:

"TL DM = (source TL - destination TL)"

So check your prospectus and route calcultions please I know mine are all reversed on that DM

 

[cheepicus]

That was me pointing it out.

 

[cheepicus]

That was me pointing it out.

 

[far-trader]

Hi all, how goes the designing

Just going over some notes and found a little to add to post 1 (as if it's not so huge already that you all haven't run in terror )...

Two small points:

First, I changed the carried small craft requirement from "10% of passengers AND cargo capacity" to "10% of passengers OR cargo capacity". Mainly to preserve the Subsidized Liner as the example. Its 20ton launch with 13tons open just makes the 10% cargo capacity mark. My thinking is it may still carry passengers if the crew takes seats from the commons and locks them into place. Call it flex-seating.

Second, I elaborated on life support a little further, in light of carrying passengers in what is really a cargo hold. The full added text is copied here...

Additionally, for Phase 2 only, small craft cabin life support is Cr1,000 per crew person or live passenger per week. Couches include life support good for 2 person hours each and costs Cr10 to recharge per seat. Cargo holds include an inherent life support capacity of 2 person hours per ton which costs Cr10 to recharge per ton. Couch and cargo hold life support does NOT include food and water or freshers.

Cargo holds or quarters opened to inhospitable conditions lose all life support. Airlocks preserve life support by storing the volume in the airlock and preventing the bulk of the volume from being contaminated. Personell airlocks are included in quarters, taken from bridge space. Cargo airlocks may be designated in the design up to 10% of the cargo volume. Cargo airlock volume is taken from cargo space but may still be used for cargo.

A note here on life support charges in MTU to be used in Phase 2. You may purchase life support charges to carry in the cargo hold to do it yourself. Stateroom recharge kits cost the same Cr2,000 per two weeks and the volume is 0.1tons each. Small craft cabin life support kits are half that. Recharge kits for couches and cargo holds come in a kit similar to the stateroom kit and are good for 200 couch recharges or 200tons of cargo space recharge. Low berth recharge kits also cost the same Cr100 but only take up 0.01tons each. None of these kits are reusable.

That's it, for now

It was just that while thinking about the requirements for life support and the lack of facilities likely to be encountered I realized some elaboration was needed. You don't need to factor it into Phase 1 but will have to for Phase 2.

Further for Phase 2 I've also dug out some old rules embellishments I may use behind the scenes. They use the CT rules as the guide but detail things a little more.

Things like I'll be using my own ship encounter table so you won't automatically know that a type A or type S in a class E starport system is safe and the type T and type C are pirates. The only systems you won't find a chance of pirates in MTU is class A and B starport systems, and pirates come in many types of ships.

Anyway, enough from me, back to your designing (I hope) everybody

 

[far-trader]

Hi all, how goes the designing

Just going over some notes and found a little to add to post 1 (as if it's not so huge already that you all haven't run in terror )...

Two small points:

First, I changed the carried small craft requirement from "10% of passengers AND cargo capacity" to "10% of passengers OR cargo capacity". Mainly to preserve the Subsidized Liner as the example. Its 20ton launch with 13tons open just makes the 10% cargo capacity mark. My thinking is it may still carry passengers if the crew takes seats from the commons and locks them into place. Call it flex-seating.

Second, I elaborated on life support a little further, in light of carrying passengers in what is really a cargo hold. The full added text is copied here...

Additionally, for Phase 2 only, small craft cabin life support is Cr1,000 per crew person or live passenger per week. Couches include life support good for 2 person hours each and costs Cr10 to recharge per seat. Cargo holds include an inherent life support capacity of 2 person hours per ton which costs Cr10 to recharge per ton. Couch and cargo hold life support does NOT include food and water or freshers.

Cargo holds or quarters opened to inhospitable conditions lose all life support. Airlocks preserve life support by storing the volume in the airlock and preventing the bulk of the volume from being contaminated. Personell airlocks are included in quarters, taken from bridge space. Cargo airlocks may be designated in the design up to 10% of the cargo volume. Cargo airlock volume is taken from cargo space but may still be used for cargo.

A note here on life support charges in MTU to be used in Phase 2. You may purchase life support charges to carry in the cargo hold to do it yourself. Stateroom recharge kits cost the same Cr2,000 per two weeks and the volume is 0.1tons each. Small craft cabin life support kits are half that. Recharge kits for couches and cargo holds come in a kit similar to the stateroom kit and are good for 200 couch recharges or 200tons of cargo space recharge. Low berth recharge kits also cost the same Cr100 but only take up 0.01tons each. None of these kits are reusable.

That's it, for now

It was just that while thinking about the requirements for life support and the lack of facilities likely to be encountered I realized some elaboration was needed. You don't need to factor it into Phase 1 but will have to for Phase 2.

Further for Phase 2 I've also dug out some old rules embellishments I may use behind the scenes. They use the CT rules as the guide but detail things a little more.

Things like I'll be using my own ship encounter table so you won't automatically know that a type A or type S in a class E starport system is safe and the type T and type C are pirates. The only systems you won't find a chance of pirates in MTU is class A and B starport systems, and pirates come in many types of ships.

Anyway, enough from me, back to your designing (I hope) everybody

 

[cheepicus]

Anyone care to give a newbie Traveller information on what sort of weaponry is to be expected in this class of ship and for this area? The starship combat chapter is fairly opaque to me. Also I can't seem to see if weapons actually have tonnage beyond the hardpoint fire control requirement.

Also another question: I assume the avatar character (the one representing each of us entrants) will be taking the place of some crewman but at the same skill requirements and salary -- not coming along as a sort of permanent unpaid and unpaying passenger?

 

[cheepicus]

Anyone care to give a newbie Traveller information on what sort of weaponry is to be expected in this class of ship and for this area? The starship combat chapter is fairly opaque to me. Also I can't seem to see if weapons actually have tonnage beyond the hardpoint fire control requirement.

Also another question: I assume the avatar character (the one representing each of us entrants) will be taking the place of some crewman but at the same skill requirements and salary -- not coming along as a sort of permanent unpaid and unpaying passenger?

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Genjuro:
Anyone care to give a newbie Traveller information on what sort of weaponry is to be expected in this class of ship and for this area?

The level of armament is a tough question. Over the course of the year you might have an encounter with a less than friendly starship or two. In this region it could be an outright pirate, a privateer, or an enemy naval vessel. In MTU in the first two cases you may get away with dumping cargo if they are bigger or better armed than you, in the last one running is your best likely hope as they will almost certainly be better armed and bigger, and they won't just be after some cargo.

Typical merchant ships usually have only half the possible hardpoints and will not always arm them. In this environment it might be a good idea to at least have one turret fitted with weapons. Just laser(s) is the cheapest as you only need the Target program (though more programs are helpful if you have enough computer to run them). Adding sandcasters for defense are not too expensive, and missiles are a good offense, but both require the Launch program as well as the Target program, and both are also expendables so you need to replace used munitions whereas lasers work as long as you have power.

Originally posted by Genjuro:
The starship combat chapter is fairly opaque to me. Also I can't seem to see if weapons actually have tonnage beyond the hardpoint fire control requirement.

I'll try to throw together a little example of starship combat later and post it here. We'll be using the simpler range band method if it comes to a fight.

You have the weapons figured out right, all you need is to declare and pay for a hardpoint and then set aside the one ton for the later actual installation of the fire control and turret and weapons. My interpretation is that the fire control and weapons fit into the turret, each taking about half the space.

The fire control includes a control seat for the Gunner, though the turret can also be controlled from any of the bridge control seats as long as there is power and a functional computer.

The weapons fit within the turret as well and don't require any extra space.

Originally posted by Genjuro:
Also another question: I assume the avatar character (the one representing each of us entrants) will be taking the place of some crewman but at the same skill requirements and salary -- not coming along as a sort of permanent unpaid and unpaying passenger?

Correct, unless you want them to be a simple owner aboard with no job beyond Captain in command. You might because it would be like a spare crewperson in case of injury or a need to do more jobs. I'd probably just make the avatar one of the crew though, for budgetary reasons.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Genjuro:
Anyone care to give a newbie Traveller information on what sort of weaponry is to be expected in this class of ship and for this area?

The level of armament is a tough question. Over the course of the year you might have an encounter with a less than friendly starship or two. In this region it could be an outright pirate, a privateer, or an enemy naval vessel. In MTU in the first two cases you may get away with dumping cargo if they are bigger or better armed than you, in the last one running is your best likely hope as they will almost certainly be better armed and bigger, and they won't just be after some cargo.

Typical merchant ships usually have only half the possible hardpoints and will not always arm them. In this environment it might be a good idea to at least have one turret fitted with weapons. Just laser(s) is the cheapest as you only need the Target program (though more programs are helpful if you have enough computer to run them). Adding sandcasters for defense are not too expensive, and missiles are a good offense, but both require the Launch program as well as the Target program, and both are also expendables so you need to replace used munitions whereas lasers work as long as you have power.

Originally posted by Genjuro:
The starship combat chapter is fairly opaque to me. Also I can't seem to see if weapons actually have tonnage beyond the hardpoint fire control requirement.

I'll try to throw together a little example of starship combat later and post it here. We'll be using the simpler range band method if it comes to a fight.

You have the weapons figured out right, all you need is to declare and pay for a hardpoint and then set aside the one ton for the later actual installation of the fire control and turret and weapons. My interpretation is that the fire control and weapons fit into the turret, each taking about half the space.

The fire control includes a control seat for the Gunner, though the turret can also be controlled from any of the bridge control seats as long as there is power and a functional computer.

The weapons fit within the turret as well and don't require any extra space.

Originally posted by Genjuro:
Also another question: I assume the avatar character (the one representing each of us entrants) will be taking the place of some crewman but at the same skill requirements and salary -- not coming along as a sort of permanent unpaid and unpaying passenger?

Correct, unless you want them to be a simple owner aboard with no job beyond Captain in command. You might because it would be like a spare crewperson in case of injury or a need to do more jobs. I'd probably just make the avatar one of the crew though, for budgetary reasons.

 

[boomslang]

Originally posted by far-trader:
Typical merchant ships usually have only half the possible hardpoints and will not always arm them. In this environment it might be a good idea to at least have one turret fitted with weapons. Just laser(s) is the cheapest as you only need the Target program (though more programs are helpful if you have enough computer to run them). Adding sandcasters for defense are not too expensive, and missiles are a good offense, but both require the Launch program as well as the Target program, and both are also expendables so you need to replace used munitions whereas lasers work as long as you have power.

A couple of further notes:

1. In general, a "merchant" will not mount either a computer or a powerplant of a factor higher than that of its jump drive. This is mostly for practical, i.e. unnecessary cost, reasons, but the bank might insist on it to discourage "extra-curricular", i.e. non-mercantile, moneymaking schemes.

2. Even though it costs money in expendables, you pretty much have to cast sand. Lots and lots of it, especially if your computer is so tiny that there's not room for a large Maneuver/Evade application program to run. In my experience, the random nature of damage from missiles makes lasers (using Select-n) the preferred weapon for disabling vessels which one wishes to corsair upon. So make 'em work for it.

3. Lasers, although free to fire, cannot fire though your own sand very effectively, and invite Return Fire from your enemy. In addition, they require precious-CPU-spaces-hogging software (such as Gunner Interact & Predict-n) to be most effective. Missiles, OTOH, can use only the Target and Launch programs you'll already be running to support sandcasting. Yes, at KCr5 apiece, they aren't cheap, but I'd happily fire tens of thousands of Credits' worth of them overboard rather than suffer a multi-million-Credit hit on my jump drive, for example...

4. If you are running computer Model/2 or larger, you probably want the ECM application program available, unless you have lots of lasers installed and can use Anti-Missile instead, just in case the Bad Guys get desperate and start in with missiles of their own.

 

[boomslang]

Originally posted by far-trader:
Typical merchant ships usually have only half the possible hardpoints and will not always arm them. In this environment it might be a good idea to at least have one turret fitted with weapons. Just laser(s) is the cheapest as you only need the Target program (though more programs are helpful if you have enough computer to run them). Adding sandcasters for defense are not too expensive, and missiles are a good offense, but both require the Launch program as well as the Target program, and both are also expendables so you need to replace used munitions whereas lasers work as long as you have power.

A couple of further notes:

1. In general, a "merchant" will not mount either a computer or a powerplant of a factor higher than that of its jump drive. This is mostly for practical, i.e. unnecessary cost, reasons, but the bank might insist on it to discourage "extra-curricular", i.e. non-mercantile, moneymaking schemes.

2. Even though it costs money in expendables, you pretty much have to cast sand. Lots and lots of it, especially if your computer is so tiny that there's not room for a large Maneuver/Evade application program to run. In my experience, the random nature of damage from missiles makes lasers (using Select-n) the preferred weapon for disabling vessels which one wishes to corsair upon. So make 'em work for it.

3. Lasers, although free to fire, cannot fire though your own sand very effectively, and invite Return Fire from your enemy. In addition, they require precious-CPU-spaces-hogging software (such as Gunner Interact & Predict-n) to be most effective. Missiles, OTOH, can use only the Target and Launch programs you'll already be running to support sandcasting. Yes, at KCr5 apiece, they aren't cheap, but I'd happily fire tens of thousands of Credits' worth of them overboard rather than suffer a multi-million-Credit hit on my jump drive, for example...

4. If you are running computer Model/2 or larger, you probably want the ECM application program available, unless you have lots of lasers installed and can use Anti-Missile instead, just in case the Bad Guys get desperate and start in with missiles of their own.

 

[cheepicus]

Thanks for the guidelines, guys. I guess I will have to read those chapters after all

I got bored and made a JavaScript trade calculator that may take some of the tedium of out estimating the actual earning potential of a freighter.

You can use it here.

 

[cheepicus]

Thanks for the guidelines, guys. I guess I will have to read those chapters after all

I got bored and made a JavaScript trade calculator that may take some of the tedium of out estimating the actual earning potential of a freighter.

You can use it here.

 

[Jeffr0]

Suggestion:

Shouldn't the estimates be based on the expected value rather than 3's or 4's?

To calculate the mean (e.v.) you multiply the # high passengers you'd get on a one times 1/6... then add the number of high passengers you'd get on a two times 1/6... and so on for all sides of the die.

To calculate the variance you multiply the sqaure of the # high passengers you'd get on a one times 1/6... then add the square of the number of high passengers you'd get on a two times 1/6... and so on for all sides of the die.

The standard deviation is the square root of the variance.


Finally... the other fact I would be interested in is the probability of my ship running at full capacity each for freight and high passage. The calculation for that would be a little more tricky given the weirdness of the trade tables. (3d-2d for example is more complex than the usual die roll problem....)

You'd just sound so much more credible when you applied for your loan if you had this stuff....

 

[Jeffr0]

Suggestion:

Shouldn't the estimates be based on the expected value rather than 3's or 4's?

To calculate the mean (e.v.) you multiply the # high passengers you'd get on a one times 1/6... then add the number of high passengers you'd get on a two times 1/6... and so on for all sides of the die.

To calculate the variance you multiply the sqaure of the # high passengers you'd get on a one times 1/6... then add the square of the number of high passengers you'd get on a two times 1/6... and so on for all sides of the die.

The standard deviation is the square root of the variance.


Finally... the other fact I would be interested in is the probability of my ship running at full capacity each for freight and high passage. The calculation for that would be a little more tricky given the weirdness of the trade tables. (3d-2d for example is more complex than the usual die roll problem....)

You'd just sound so much more credible when you applied for your loan if you had this stuff....

 

[cheepicus]

Jeffr0: The "roll 4's" is for the specific rules of this contest, the "roll 3's" button is just for my amusement.

Doing a monte carlo for all of the passengers and freight possibilities might have been a better idea than "average of a thousand rolls", you're right, but the 1000 rolls things was easy and kinda fun.

I suppose probability of full capacity on staterooms and cargo might be useful to know if you have room to spare in game terms. For credit-counting I don't see how interesting that info is.

 

[cheepicus]

Jeffr0: The "roll 4's" is for the specific rules of this contest, the "roll 3's" button is just for my amusement.

Doing a monte carlo for all of the passengers and freight possibilities might have been a better idea than "average of a thousand rolls", you're right, but the 1000 rolls things was easy and kinda fun.

I suppose probability of full capacity on staterooms and cargo might be useful to know if you have room to spare in game terms. For credit-counting I don't see how interesting that info is.

 

[Jeffr0]

I was thinking it would be useful for helping to determing whether you should get a second turret or not. Or whether the Staterooms might be better as cargo holds or not.

Am I right that you want to maximize your High Passages because that's where the money is... but running non-High Passage staterooms is not good?

Where is this game won or lost...? In how you spend that last 10 tons of space? Or in whether or not you survive that boarding attempt?

 

[Jeffr0]

I was thinking it would be useful for helping to determing whether you should get a second turret or not. Or whether the Staterooms might be better as cargo holds or not.

Am I right that you want to maximize your High Passages because that's where the money is... but running non-High Passage staterooms is not good?

Where is this game won or lost...? In how you spend that last 10 tons of space? Or in whether or not you survive that boarding attempt?