mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Stick a LBB:8 pilot/engineer robot in there instead of a crewman. Pay off its mortgage over the 40 years of the x-boat
Vote Your Canon #4: Jump Torpedos (consensus: NOT)
- Thread starter robject
- Start date
Or just hardwire the robot brain into the X-Boat Main Computer, and install larger Communication/Storage capacity in place of the Stateroom and common-area living facilites.
I think I mentioned this up-thread; I know I've said it before: It's an artifact of the OTU being an RPG setting.
If the XBoat doesn't need a pilot, then other starships may not need one either.
Starships need sophont pilots because robot autopilots don't make very playable player characters, and as NPCs they give the referee an almost unchecked ability to remove player agency. It's hard to get more "railroad-y" than putting the PCs on a starship that can be arbitrarily sent (i.e., decide on its own to go) where the referee wants rather than where the players want...
Last edited:
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
That rule was retconned in Mongoose in a supplement, but specifically it requires a sophont astrogator to make the calculations, and a conscious mind to ensure there is no misjump.
In other words, you can't have only someone in a low berth onboard, or I suppose, in a coma, or a monkey.
In other words, you can't have only someone in a low berth onboard, or I suppose, in a coma, or a monkey.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I have little faith in a bit of fanon being classed as canon because it appears in one obscure supplement and is contradicted by every other bit of evidence that can be found within the Traveller corpus.
I recall an early rumour or some such that there are robotic x-boats, LBB:8 features the ship handling skills of pilot, navigation, engineering, 101 Robots actually details a robot pilot.
I recall an early rumour or some such that there are robotic x-boats, LBB:8 features the ship handling skills of pilot, navigation, engineering, 101 Robots actually details a robot pilot.
I would argue that while a robot at TL12-15 might be able to take care of routine piloting or navigation operations and make routine (or even more sophisticated) decisions, it is not Sentient-AI (no matter how sophisticated its heuristic programming), and therefore not suitable to make potential life-or-death decisions in emergency situations involving sophont passengers or crew without sophont supervision and override authority.
It may simply be a legal (or good common-sense) requirement.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Just for fun I had a look at the oldest reference I could think of. According to canon - i.e. MWM Robots article JTAS4
As the old programmer's chestnut goes: "Robots/Computers don't make mistakes - people make mistakes . . . "
Indeed, for sure.
Yea, simply, I consider the XBoat a special case. The ship "doesn't do anything" except Jump and beep for help when it arrives.
Yes.As the old programmer's chestnut goes: "Robots/Computers don't make mistakes - people make mistakes . . . "
When I see testimony about how the driver of a Tesla (or any current autonomous driving system, not to pick on Tesla) was fighting the steering wheel and snapping the brake pedal off of the car from pressing it so hard with both feet before it went careening into some tragic, innocent victim, then I'll consider "blaming Tesla Auto-pilot" instead of the idiot-pilot behind the wheel.
"I hope to die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather, instead of shouting and screaming like his passengers."
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
Lacking a Maneuver Drive, I would even go so far as to argue that an XBoat doesn't need a "pilot" per se, it merely needs a navigator/astrogator only.
With LBB8 rules in play, you can even set up a "computer brain in a box" ... although even then I would argue that a Model/4 computer (CPU 8/Storage 15) ought to have enough compute power on its own to be able to skip over the Robot Box workaround completely, even under LBB2.77 rules (which are the only ones where XBoats "work" as written).
- Jump-1 = 1 space
- Jump-2 = 2 spaces
- Jump-3 = 2 spaces
- Jump-4 = 2 spaces
- Library = 1 space
- Navigation = 1 space
I would argue that the four Jump programs are kept permanently in CPU, with the Library and Navigation programs swapping in and out of Storage when needed (load the Navigation program to jump, once in jump space swap to the Library program for the duration and move Navigation into Storage). Such an arrangement would leave 14 Storage space available for loading with data communications (which hopefully ought to be almost enough).
Literally every other computer program available in LBB2.77 is completely useless for XBoat operation (Tenders are a different story). Even the Anti-hijack program makes little sense to include, given how XBoats operate (and a week in jumpspace is more than enough time to defeat any anti-hijacking measures using relatively simple tools to cut through even internal bulkheads, given the time available during jump).
So in a sense, the LBB2.77 XBoat design is the original Jump Torpedo due to the "purity" of its mission specification. I would even go so far as to argue that a LBB2.77 XBoat does not require a (live) pilot onboard each XBoat ... but a computer programmer(s) with pilot and navigation skills ought to be required aboard Tenders to run diagnostic checks and update patches on XBoat OS programming as part of the routine refurbishment servicing between jumps following retrieval after breakout. Basic idea being that a complete diagnostic of the computer systems needs to be run after every jump while the Tender engineering crew is attending to the 16 hours of routine maintenance checks before an XBoat is ready for fueling and outbound dispatch.
Under such a scenario, the "XBoat Pilot" crew position is (in effect) "outsourced" to the Express Tenders, so the XBoat itself is a "robot starship" that requires zero crew aboard (they're automated) with all of the oversight and maintenance for each XBoat being resourced from the Tenders. The XBoats CAN have crew/passengers aboard in order to ferry personnel between network nodes as needed, but such an "automated XBoat" network would mean that individual XBoats are not assigned to specific star systems and instead just circulate through the network on an ad hoc "as needed" basis in a somewhat amorphous pattern. XBoats that are nearing their annual overhaul maintenance limits simply get prioritized for routing back to a Scout Base/Way Station where such overhaul maintenance can be performed "in bulk" at the lowest costs to the IISS.
In other words, unlike the Space Shuttle, you don't need a crewman to flip the switch to lower the landing gear.
With the support of crew services from an Express Tender, a LBB2.77 XBoat can be completely automated and require zero crew aboard in order to function ... since the Express Tender supplies all crew services needed (while in normal space).
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
I don't really care have an opinion on the matter of whether you can automate jump operations, beyond the roleplaying possibilities, in a roleplaying game.
You can assume the editors decided to leave the matter ambiguous, or have other fish to fry.
You can assume the editors decided to leave the matter ambiguous, or have other fish to fry.
Got to thinking about this. Perhaps the way this gets across is a command roll to the robot or DMs. If the person giving the order is not skilled in the skill the robot is getting the command for, -1 to -4 applies. An additional -2 for no Computer/Robotics skill.
Alternatively check with robot INT or below for anything above routine tasks. A failure means possible misunderstanding and subsequent robot error.
Alternatively check with robot INT or below for anything above routine tasks. A failure means possible misunderstanding and subsequent robot error.
Seems reasonable. Might want pilot-0 for roll, pitch, and yaw maneuvers with whatever reaction thrusters it might have, if ship orientation matters for Jump. But yes, not a whole lot of piloting going on there.
Or, as I put it, Jumpspace wants an audience, resents playing to an empty theater, and gets destructive when that happens.
Yeah, it's gratuitously anthropomorphizing Jumpspace (sophontomorphizing? whatever.) but hey, it's an RPG setting with made-up rules so why not?
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Or it's getting Forty Kayish.
And Warhammer borrowed a lot from Cthulhu.
And Warhammer borrowed a lot from Cthulhu.
Canonically, yes, once they've developed sufficient complexity. I don't think a stowaway viral core process that's idle because it doesn't have enough resources would count.
Last edited:
Easy! Unmanned, it's a salvageable derelict. Manned, it's piracy to try to take it if the pilot objects.
Yeah, thread necromancy. Was just looking for my old posts on J-Torps and ran across this.
Last edited:
