General Wouldn't any Tech proliferate as fast as travel throughout the Imperium?

[kilemall]

The GURPS Far Trader has rules for how far things can go and still make money. Though it is a big-ship universe, and the mechanics are different, there is still value in looking at that model as well I believe.

Essentially each system has a World Trade Number based TL, population, port type and trade classifications. Then between systems there is a BTN, Bilateral Trade Number based on distance, both sets of trade classifications. That number determines the amount of trade between any two systems. Years ago, I actually wrote software to do all that (my first Traveller trade program 20+ years ago, and the reason I started my blog honestly. I was laid off, and I had time on my hands).

Some examples of the BTN:

• BTN 1: 10-50CR/year. no cargo at at
• BTN 5: 100-500KCr/year, 10-50 tons/year,
• BTN 10: 10-50GCr (billions of credits)/year, 1-5 million tons/year, 50-100K tons/week, 1-5 thousand tons a day

I personally think the distance modifier needs to be larger than it is, but the underpinnings of GURPS is a bit different than Classic.

I tend to divide the volumes of trade (and that includes passengers) by 10 as I prefer a small-ship universe, and the GURPS Traveller universe is a lot busier than Classic seems to be.

edit: I think this is the large, commercial scale trade, not the tramp trading.

The speculative trade in CT is not a comprehensive trade model by any means. But it can serve as a reality check as to baseline supply/demand coupled with how well they travel, and multipliers for ranges of potential prices.

Actual demand, or a pop 4 planet would barely consume a free trader cargo and and be sated with depressed prices whereas on a pop 9 world it shouldn’t move the needle except with a full treasure fleet modeled. But it can be used to get a sense of flavor for what cargo actually moves across subsectors and what conflicts may lie beneath the surface of trade.

 

[Enoki]

I went to a homegrown system in part for that sort of trade. Systems are rated 1 to 10 on their economic potential or performance. Ones that come out around a 6 - 7+ are economical viable. A high 7+ is a major trade hub. For almost any subsector, there will normally be 1 to 4 systems that are 7+. The majority come out in the 4 or less range and are what I call economic "basket cases." These are the ones serviced by player owned ships for the most part.

What you do if you want to make money at trade, is get a contract at one (or more) of the trade hubs and start making runs to the low-end systems because your little ship can haul the cargo going to one or more per week. If you are careful with your money and keep expenses down, you make a decent living hauling freight to these smaller systems.

If you want to dabble in speculative trade to them, or do stuff under the table or that is 'questionable,' you can to supplement that at some degree of risk. It isn't a get rich quick scheme, but you at least are making a living...

A good way to play this system is to haul in the cargo the company consigned to you to some world. You pick up the little bit going out, and you've gotten to know some locals who want you hauling stuff on the side in or out--legal or illegal--and make those deals to make extra cash.

 

[Spinward Scout]

As to the gauss pistol, I would like to buy a DD AR-15 and a Glock 21- I can't because I live in the UK and it is illegal.

Have you tried all avenues to get them? The Black Market in London? The IRA in Northern Ireland? The Scottish Labour mafia in Scotland?

Just because it's illegal doesn't mean it's not there.

 

[warwizard]

So what happens to my quaint <AG> world when trade to that <HI, IN> world is interrupted? (5th Frontier war perhaps) The players get to see mountians of grain dumped into open fields near the starport, for there is not enough transports to take the grain further than the 1 parsec that they have been doing for the past 200 years. Indeed the transports are optimized for trade between the two systems, and may not be able to go anywhere else. The HIC is not big enough to do more than fit one or two ships with drop tanks (out of the hundreds of ships that need them), and even at that the HIC is forgoing investing in maintaining itself so desperate is the need to get some of thier foods exported. If this trade interuption lasts more than a few months, the planet is going to abandon maintaining and operating the vast majority of it's Agricultural capital as there is no market for the food within reach of the existing fleet. In short order the world no longer produces excess AG goods, is selling vast quantities of used AIC, wants to buy HIC LIC and MIC. The local starport may upgrade to class B so it can make drop tanks and internal fuel bladders. After all there are hundreds of 10,000 DT bulk freighters that need to go elsewhere (TM) to maintain payments of thier notes.

 

[Condottiere]

 

[mike wightman]

How to install a data/comms network for a small community.
You build a few 15G towers and have a server to run it.

A satellite uplink would connect distant communities.

1000 people - 100Cr contract per month.

 

[Condottiere]

Critical mass.

Which I suspect can't easily be calculated, since the more sophisticated a technological base, the more you need to invest to maintain it.

 

[coliver988]

Critical mass.

Which I suspect can't easily be calculated, since the more sophisticated a technological base, the more you need to invest to maintain it.

until at some point it becomes self-sustaining. but then the AI / robots are running everything and what do people do? There have been a number of interesting movies and shows that go into this (and it usually ends up badly for the organics). But at that point it is not the Traveller game I play, where it is the little guy that can make a difference and has to work for a living.

Wikipedia article on post-scarcity society

 

[atpollard]

1000 people - 100Cr contract per month.

That comes out to about $530 per month ... and I thought my Cable bill was high.

 

[Spinward Flow]

So what happens to my quaint <AG> world when trade to that <HI, IN> world is interrupted? (5th Frontier war perhaps) The players get to see mountians of grain dumped into open fields near the starport, for there is not enough transports to take the grain further than the 1 parsec that they have been doing for the past 200 years.

35th Rule of Acquisition: Peace is good for business.
34th Rule of Acquisition: War is good for business.
It's easy to get them confused.

When an "external shock to the system" occurs, such as the Fifth Frontier War that you cite, demand for goods, services and products can shift rather dramatically. It's also perfectly possible that demand for all that grain (that you cite) could RISE, rather than just simply disappear, making the grain more valuable rather than "worthless" as an export commodity.

Indeed the transports are optimized for trade between the two systems, and may not be able to go anywhere else.

That's a problem of crippling overspecialization.
ANY business that is so heavily dependent upon the status quo (ante) being sustained indefinitely DESERVES WHAT IT GETS "when the revolution comes" and the business is unable to adapt to a change in circumstances.

If you put all of your eggs in one basket and someone comes along and steals your basket ... that's on YOU for why you don't have any eggs anymore.

If this trade interuption lasts more than a few months, the planet is going to abandon maintaining and operating the vast majority of it's Agricultural capital as there is no market for the food within reach of the existing fleet.

The market will shift to a new trading paradigm capable of operating under the new market conditions.
The market won't simply "give up and go home" (so to speak), ending the existence of the market entirely.

Circumstances will change, so the market for products and services will change. How quickly (and painlessly) the market will be able to "adapt" to those changes in terms of reordering supply chains is the subject of research papers.

 

[kilemall]

How to install a data/comms network for a small community.
You build a few 15G towers and have a server to run it.

A satellite uplink would connect distant communities.

1000 people - 100Cr contract per month.

I’m thinking more dumb bounce satellite and ham radios. Weather satellites are a critical item.

 

[Condottiere]

Just set up the equipment in an air/raft, and let it drift overhead.

 

[Dragoner]

Some Earth cultures interface differently with technology than the west, often as it is called their philosophy of technology is different, so it would not be necessarily unrealistic that they are lower tech, as that is what they want to be. They could still purchase arms from higher tech worlds to defend themselves. I don't let players buy military style weapons such as gauss rifles, or combat armor anywhere except the black market. Consim had a interesting discussion about how networks work in a distributed manner as well recently. More like the old usenet, than what we do today.

 

[warwizard]

35th Rule of Acquisition: Peace is good for business.
34th Rule of Acquisition: War is good for business.
It's easy to get them confused.

When an "external shock to the system" occurs, such as the Fifth Frontier War that you cite, demand for goods, services and products can shift rather dramatically. It's also perfectly possible that demand for all that grain (that you cite) could RISE, rather than just simply disappear, making the grain more valuable rather than "worthless" as an export commodity.

That's a problem of crippling overspecialization.
ANY business that is so heavily dependent upon the status quo (ante) being sustained indefinitely DESERVES WHAT IT GETS "when the revolution comes" and the business is unable to adapt to a change in circumstances.

If you put all of your eggs in one basket and someone comes along and steals your basket ... that's on YOU for why you don't have any eggs anymore.

The market will shift to a new trading paradigm capable of operating under the new market conditions.
The market won't simply "give up and go home" (so to speak), ending the existence of the market entirely.

Circumstances will change, so the market for products and services will change. How quickly (and painlessly) the market will be able to "adapt" to those changes in terms of reordering supply chains is the subject of research papers.

Even if the existing ships can install fuel bladders and do 2 J-1 to reach a market, the current hulls can carry less than 1/2 the previous tonnage of cargo per month. It will take several months for additional capacity of J-2+ hulls to be attracted by the lowered prices. The local subsector shipping is unlikley to be able to absorb an extra 7-800,000 DT of monthly bulk cargo. The local Duke may detail a few jump tenders to ferry the bulk haulers (for an unspecified favor to be collected at a later time.), which can fill the gap for the time needed to deploy additional shipping to meet the demand. In the 3I the government is all about managing trade, so using naval assets in this way would be not unusual.

 

[Dragoner]

until at some point it becomes self-sustaining. but then the AI / robots are running everything and what do people do? There have been a number of interesting movies and shows that go into this (and it usually ends up badly for the organics). But at that point it is not the Traveller game I play, where it is the little guy that can make a difference and has to work for a living.

Wikipedia article on post-scarcity society

From that article:
"Post-scarcity does not mean that scarcity has been eliminated for all goods and services but that all people can easily have their basic survival needs met along with some significant proportion of their desires for goods and services."

In my setting they use it to say they don't do artificial scarcity, such as today like with oil and OPEC. People still have jobs, such as watching the robots, I know someone who works at a factory, and that is exactly what they do. Traveller originally said that thrift, and hard work wouldn't get you ahead, and I sort of deviate from that in that is what 99% of people do. PC's are adventurers, the 1%, and out for adventure, whatever theme they choose to play. Themes can change in game as well, such as going from merchants to pirates, or something.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Even if the existing ships can install fuel bladders and do 2 J-1 to reach a market, the current hulls can carry less than 1/2 the previous tonnage of cargo per month. It will take several months for additional capacity of J-2+ hulls to be attracted by the lowered prices. The local subsector shipping is unlikley to be able to absorb an extra 7-800,000 DT of monthly bulk cargo. The local Duke may detail a few jump tenders to ferry the bulk haulers (for an unspecified favor to be collected at a later time.), which can fill the gap for the time needed to deploy additional shipping to meet the demand. In the 3I the government is all about managing trade, so using naval assets in this way would be not unusual.

Disruption: Yes.
Market "extinction event" levels: No.

There will no doubt be some dislocation and "supply chain snarls" in the short term (and the shorter the more immediate), delivering a "shock to the system" of interstellar trade. However, there will be "winners and losers" coming out of that event. Some incumbents will go bankrupt while others (and newcomers) adapt faster to the changing conditions to meet the shifts in supply and demand.

Even an event on the scale of the Fifth Frontier War did not "shut off trade in the entire Spinward Marches sector" like a light switch that couldn't be turned back on again. Trade didn't just STOP.

Market conditions ... shifted.
The status quo ante ... changed.
Operators who could "adapt" to the changes thrived and flourished, while those who could not ... entered a downward spiral ... which then created new opportunities for someone else to step up and fill the void left by the operators who went under when the market got disrupted.

 

[Enoki]

How to install a data/comms network for a small community.
You build a few 15G towers and have a server to run it.

A satellite uplink would connect distant communities.

1000 people - 100Cr contract per month.

But you have to be sure:

1. They need it.
2. They can afford it.
3. You'll make money on it or get the government to subsidize it.

 

[infojunky]

Ok, the first thing to remember the Imperium is incredibly conservative. Just because it is "New" doesn't mean it's better.

The next part of the problem is "What is Tech Level?"

Ask yourself, outside of military products, what does it mean in the day to day lives of the various worlds.

 

[Enoki]

I’m thinking more dumb bounce satellite and ham radios. Weather satellites are a critical item.

Or, given better technology and the planet having one or more moons, you bounce the signal off of those...

 

[Condottiere]

Needs hierarchy would depend as to what point it's post scarce, and if the electorate, or parts thereof, believe they are entitled to.